Finding the Balance Between Business Strategy and Loyalty

Have you ever faced the dilemma of choosing loyalty over performance in your work relationships? Carolyn and I kick off this episode with a personal story that underscores the complexities of loyalty in the construction industry. We'll share an unforgettable experience with a long-term plumbing trade partner whose performance issues forced us into making some tough calls. Discover the critical role of clear communication, mutual respect, and the tough decisions that builders must navigate to uphold standards and maintain successful outcomes.

Balancing loyalty and business strategy is no small feat, and that's exactly what we tackle in our next segment. We analyze the fine line between staying loyal to trade partners and securing the best service and pricing for projects. Listen as we explore the mutual benefits that arise when trades bring value-added solutions to the table. We'll also dive into the challenges that come with maintaining competitive pricing, the importance of vigilant cost code reviews, and the biases that new personnel can introduce in purchasing decisions. This conversation is a must-hear for anyone looking to optimize their business relationships and cost management strategies.

Finally, we examine how unwavering loyalty to a single vendor might be more harmful than helpful. Learn why transparent communication and open dialogue are essential for identifying and addressing issues early on, avoiding unnecessary costs, and improving processes. Plus, we emphasize the value of understanding business margins and investing time in self-improvement to become more valuable within your organization. Carolyn and I reflect on how our discussion took some unexpected yet enriching turns, offering insights that could transform how you approach loyalty in your business operations.

Chapters

• 0:03 Exploring Loyalty in Construction
• 13:43 Analyzing Loyalty and Business Strategy
• 25:56 Challenging Loyalty in Business Operations
• 29:49 Maximizing Business Margins Through Loyalty

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:03

oh, I love that, I love that hey y'all, welcome back to another episode of feed me your construction content. I'm carolyn mcmahon and I am joshua mcmahon how you doing dude it's good to be back for week 475 I say how you doing, dude, and you just keep on just doing your thing I I'm going into how it's good to be back. Oh.

Speaker 1: 0:28

Did you not even listen to what I said? This podcast is going downhill. We got a great topic this week and it's something that we all struggle with. We see highs and lows in the value of it, but it's really loyalty and what does that mean and what does that look like?

Speaker 2: 0:47

Yes, and everyone should be impressed that I actually came up with this content.

Speaker 1: 0:52

You did, you were thinking about it and you said I've got a podcast idea. And I said, oh, let me get my notebook.

Speaker 2: 0:58

And I woke up at I don't know four o'clock in the morning and I was flat on my stomach. I mean I never sleep that way and I was like I'm thinking about a podcast, it's about loyalty and Josh is getting up to run, but anyway. So everyone comes in contact or deals with loyalty, right, whether it's personal, business, development, corporate, all kinds of and types of loyalty.

Speaker 1: 1:26

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Really, what does it mean? How do you demonstrate, how excuse me, how you demonstrate loyalty, how you receive loyalty?

Speaker 1: 1:36

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:36

It's a big deal.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Yeah, pros and cons to it, and how do you know that you're loyal to them and they're loyal to you and everybody is getting a win-win outcome.

Speaker 2: 1:47

Right, because what if you think that you're in a win-win scenario, but you're actually in a win-lose?

Speaker 1: 1:55

Happens.

Speaker 2: 1:56

And you've got no idea.

Speaker 1: 1:58

Yeah, I mean that stuff happens, it's real.

Speaker 2: 2:01

So let's talk about it.

Speaker 1: 2:02

Let's start with the easy stuff, right. What's the value of loyalty? So, from a builder standpoint, loyalty, consistency, right. If I have the same trade on the job every single time, everything can be consistent, and this is not just production. This can be custom, it can be anything. They understand what my expectations are. They understand what the minimum standards are. We're going to get a high level of consistency.

Speaker 2: 2:28

You feel that the trade doing your work will be loyal because they know what the expectations are, that the job is ready.

Speaker 1: 2:38

I don't know if that makes them loyal to us. I think if we have work, we're giving them preferential treatment to be our trade of choice. So the bigger the builder you are, you might have two trades in the game one at 80%, one at 20%.

Speaker 2: 2:53

Just employing someone or hiring a trade to do something, is that you're being loyal to them? No, no, babe.

Speaker 1: 3:00

What I'm saying is if you're loyal to a trade and you have the same trade over and over, and over again that loyalty to the trade brings a lot of benefits you think or you hope it does well, on the highest level it does sorry, I am wound up because this, this category or this subject came up in business and I'm just.

Speaker 2: 3:26

I don't know.

Speaker 1: 3:29

Well, let me give you a different scenario. Here's what happened when I first got to the company I'm at currently. They were loyal to trades for 20 plus years. I mean, I'll tell you the story of the plumber. When I went and met with the plumber, the plumber was the biggest disappointment for our team. The consistency was poor. They would show up when they wanted and when they did show up they did half the work. So it was a really bad experience. Schedule was hurting. We weren't making money at the end of the day. Customers were furious with us.

Speaker 1: 3:59

I drove an hour and a half away from our office to their office to go meet with the owner of the company. It was great, right? What builder does that? Well, I do, because I want to come to you, because you're important, I value you, right, I value our relationship, only for the owner of the company to sit across me at the table and say, honey, we've been doing your work for 30 years. I'm like, okay, I don't understand what that means, because we're not getting what we need. And I'm telling you I need a different response. And what she was saying was we're going to keep doing your work even after you're gone. Oh, that's essentially what she was saying.

Speaker 2: 4:43

Oh, so she knows you by reputation.

Speaker 1: 4:45

Well, she damn sure does now, and this is two years ago, a year and a half ago and I said look, here's the reality. We keep doing business, the way you're doing business and the way we've done business for 30 years. We're all going out of business and I'm not interested in that. So we are going to make some changes and this is what I'm looking for and I want you to be a part of it, because you've been loyal to us and because we've been loyal to you. Well, three weeks later, we keep advancing. Nothing gets better. I give the next job to a different plumber. I call the owner of that company and say Wait a minute First, did you say honey.

Speaker 1: 5:21

I did not. I took the high road on it.

Speaker 2: 5:24

I mean okay it was a missed opportunity.

Speaker 1: 5:28

Let me note it in my Rolodex. I can go back to it in the future. So I called and said I'm giving this job to another plumber the things that we talked about when we met. We're still struggling with these things. I wish you nothing but the best and I'm hoping that this will evolve and we'll come back and we'll be working together again. And that's how I fired that company. Well, later that day she talks to the owner of the company our company and says don't ever let him get away. That's a good one. He shoots you straight and that's what we like. And that's what I liked about her as an owner too, was that she's a no BS type of person, and I I appreciate that in the business.

Speaker 2: 6:07

Have you done work with them since? No.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Okay, no, we we haven't. Uh, you know the pricing they were cheaper than any other plumber, best price in the market, quality not very good, support Terrible. So the loyalty got us great pricing but it didn't get us a great product. And what happened was, as we went through the years, we continued to raise our minimum standard. What we were doing yesterday was no longer good enough. They didn't. So our loyalty to that company was actually hurting our brand because they weren't meeting our minimum standard. So while loyalty in the past was good because pricing was good, consistency was good, all those things it wasn't good anymore. We're different companies, so the loyalty was really hurting us.

Speaker 2: 6:55

So let me flip that scenario. So you're dealing with a long-term trade very similar to what you described. You've been doing business for you with a long time. Their service actually is really good. They can be counted on for the most part. And you know what? Because we have this loyal relationship, we forgive each other's sins and transgressions. Right, you forget to order something, you delay something? Oh crap. But you know what. We're going to deal with it. Vice versa, you come out jobs not ready, it's okay. Something gets damaged. I'm not going to. You know, vp. You, so you know you think this relationship is working really great, until pricing becomes an issue. So at what point does, does loyalty kind of overshadow what you're paying for something?

Speaker 1: 7:47

Well, I think, in what you're referring to, at the end of the day it's still the game of business and in the game of business you have to do what makes the most sense for everyone to meet the right expectations, to deliver the product that you hope to deliver to the client, because you set expectations on what you're going to deliver And's based on quality, time, price, etc. And I think you have to evaluate that stuff because business changes, people change, market changes, market changes. And if you go back two years ago, I said, hey, it's great, we can sell anything we want for any price and people will buy because we can't build fast enough. It's going to change.

Speaker 2: 8:27

Sure.

Speaker 1: 8:29

Well, the market has changed Right.

Speaker 2: 8:31

Yes. So for builders, yes, there's still an inventory problem, there's still an interest rate problem. But you know, at what point does your P&E people, the people in estimating purchasing, you know those folks say we really need to identify savings and, you know, say your loyal trade gets shocked. And what they find in this exercise is just mind blowing. Because then all these questions come up like oh my God, is the cost of my loyalty been a 25% markup over someone else? And how long has this been going on? Et cetera, et cetera. So I mean what the heck?

Speaker 1: 9:18

Well, I think you got to peel the layers of that onion back. I think it's great to say we've got loyalty, Everybody takes great care of us. That's great If it makes you feel good. Good If you sell the number of homes you want to do great. But I think we're not going to be able to build as many homes as we've wanted to, which means you've got to be more focused on your margin and how much money you're making, and not just the gross margin, not just what you sell the home at, but the net margin, the gross margin, not just what you sell the home at, but the net margin. Time is a factor in that. So I do agree with you about service. Service is important and that's worth. I don't know how many points it's worth, but it's worth several.

Speaker 2: 9:54

Well, right, I mean you have to determine what you're willing to pay.

Speaker 1: 9:59

That's right. I mean gosh, the market won't bear it, but you will. Okay, fine, Well, put it in your sales pitch. What makes us a better builder? We respond to service claims within X. Look at our Google reviews. We're known for service. We're known for being there to support the product we've built.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Yeah and listen, there are service providers that they know that they can't provide the cheapest price and I respect the heck out of people who will say we just can't do that for the price that you you want to pay. You know we couldn't afford the labor to even deliver that to you. So it's like you know you've got this, this price, and it's like I'm sorry. You know how people, just you know they fall over themselves to try to get you know the big builders.

Speaker 2: 10:45

X, y, z and they will do anything, and often at their own detriment, to get this business and it's, like you know, okay great. This layer of business will keep your lights on, you know, keep the wheels kind of turning, but at what cost? The tax that we talk about, you know so. And then and then, if those people are only looking for the best price, what are they going to do to you in six months, after you've hired crews to take on their business and they're like, well, so-and-so, down the street actually does it for 10% less. So those folks certainly are not looking for loyalty.

Speaker 1: 11:22

And you have to determine what type of business you want to be. If you want to be the business who's fighting for the lowest common denominator, then great.

Speaker 2: 11:30

Well, yeah, listen to a guy today. If it's all about price, it's a race to the bottom.

Speaker 1: 11:35

That's the home building industry. So take our home that we built. We hired an HVAC contractor and plumber. It wasn't the cheapest. No, we knew they weren't the cheapest when we went into it. And when we build homes in the future we will still continue to hire this group Because the service, not the reputation, not the brand, the service and what they do and what they stand for. They do something, they stand by it. So paying a little bit more money, it erases the tax that we might have to pay later, because that tax might discourage us from ever wanting to do something again, which you know for me I'm an ambitious individual. That tax could derail my ambition.

Speaker 2: 12:17

Oh no, no Like on Instagram. You're ambitious. Yes, the word of the day is ambitious.

Speaker 1: 12:32

Sorry, I just had to throw that in there. That's been going around. It's a great word, I love it. Well, as we talk about loyalty, I want to go back in time when, when the housing bottle bubble burst, and I remember there were trades that were so loyal to us that we were the only builder they did work for.

Speaker 2: 12:51

Oh gosh Really. Oh, my God yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:53

It was a handful of them, but it wasn't that they were loyal to us. It's really that they were lazy and they didn't want to go out and seek out more business.

Speaker 2: 13:00

Oh yeah, because there was no marketing. They didn't have to go find it, you just hand-fed them. But you didn't have to go find it, you just, like you know, hand fed them.

Speaker 1: 13:06

You didn't have to. But you didn't have to do anything back then. Like I mean, I've told people that back then I remember vividly yo, you don't like those cabinets, who cares? We'll rip them down and give you new cabinets. We're making so much money, we don't care. Well, we cared pretty damn quickly. The business is gone. That business is gone. That was doing that and making those mistakes. But the point I was making was the trades that were so loyal that they only did our work. Man, how did they survive when that bubble burst? Because then there was no work we were done. Our business was gone. What work were you doing? What builder were you working with? So loyalty is. I think it's great in some aspects, but loyalty can also really hold you back.

Speaker 2: 13:55

Well, sure, what if you're not getting the best service, the best price? I mean, I want to work for a trade partner who talks to me about my business Like, hey, I see that you haven't sold a lot of this.

Speaker 1: 14:11

Yes that's great.

Speaker 2: 14:12

Maybe you could do this. Have you considered doing this? Explain to me how you do this. How about trades who come to you with money-making ideas for you?

Speaker 1: 14:23

That's right.

Speaker 2: 14:24

Like, hey, we can sell this to you, you know whatever, and then we meet with your client. We can do you know X amount of markup or whatever. But if you're not trying to to actively make money for your trade, then that's, that's to me a huge miss.

Speaker 1: 14:40

And it's a lack of showing respect to that trade. I mean, I think from a production builder standpoint, we want your base product to be as low as you can Sure Right, and then we want to give you the opportunity to upgrade. You make more money on upgrades and we make more money on upgrades. So it's a win-win scenario and the buyer is still getting a great deal. Everybody wins in that scenario.

Speaker 2: 15:05

So then I've just a a, just an overall silly question for you. So you have a feature in your home that's standard, but the standard is expensive, right, and we're talking about oh gosh, we don't do rolled vinyl flooring, we do a really nice I don't know engineered laminate, not lvp, but engineered laminate not LVP but engineered laminate and we always as a group provide this higher end product in certain areas.

Speaker 2: 15:34

But you can easily extend that into other areas. So for me I'm feeling well, we should get the included areas at cheaper than we would get the extended areas. I mean, this is where I really should be like a P&E person. I would go destroy everybody. But I mean all of these things. Like you said, you want to get the best base price, what your standard features are, and then you know you could.

Speaker 1: 16:03

But base for the trade side. The base would not be that product, it would be something completely different. So your base is an upgraded product already.

Speaker 2: 16:13

Right.

Speaker 1: 16:14

So it's not fair to the trade. I mean, why is it an upgraded product from the go? Because your price point is not $300,000.

Speaker 2: 16:24

Listen, I'm trying to find an opportunity.

Speaker 2: 16:34

I think that's great though you're looking for ways to reduce costs but also ways to upsell, so everybody wins. But how about this? I mean if, if the trade does any trade, I don't care who they are. If they don't like my idea, it doesn't mean that they're not loyal to me or I won't be loyal to them because I want to, you know, kick them to curb, but it just. It fascinates me that when you get into a comfortable position I mean I was in sales, I mean we talked about it, I think we talked about it with Brooke is that it's much harder to get a new customer than it is to maintain an existing one, and what happens is that you take your eye off the existing ones because, hey, they're loyal, they're never, ever going to leave me.

Speaker 1: 17:19

Right, that's how they approach it, until somebody new comes into purchasing.

Speaker 2: 17:25

Well, right, and that's a big deal. You know, the P&E person wants to make their mark whatever.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Not just wants to. I think you have to.

Speaker 2: 17:36

They've been tasked with saving money.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Your job as a purchaser is to go through every single cost code and know that you're getting the best possible pricing.

Speaker 2: 17:53

But sometimes there's that what do we talk about in, in building, what you can?

Speaker 1: 17:55

have two out of the three cheap, yeah, but you need three out of three.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Oh, you need three out of three. So you want it all as as the purchasing.

Speaker 1: 18:01

You want the most incredible service no, if I want the best service and I want to pay a higher price and I want to make sure I get a better product, I'm not. The triangle has to be equal sized and you can get two out of three would imply that, oh, our triangle in home building is two long legs and one short leg. Yeah, you can make a triangle that way, but you know why we have the problems we have? It's because we think that we can do this and push it off as being acceptable.

Speaker 2: 18:28

Okay, but you said that you, as the purchaser, the P&E manager, whatever wants three, all three.

Speaker 1: 18:35

That's right. I still think you want all three. The three have to be equal sized. I'm not saying I think you're misunderstanding. You're thinking that I'm saying I need the best possible price. So if the price in the market is 500, then I want it to be 450. Okay, I'm not saying it needs to be 450. 525 might be a good price I might still be getting a good price but if I'm actually paying 1150, well, I'm failing as a purchaser. Oh, you're getting effed. That happens and purchasers get lazy and they don't review every cost code to double check.

Speaker 2: 19:08

But that's what I'm saying. You just get comfortable in this relationship and then no one is checking.

Speaker 1: 19:16

That's the disadvantage. So we can say, yeah, we value loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, great. Some of my issues with loyalty is exactly that. The purchasing department uh, they get wined and dined, they get taken care of, so you don't look at some of those things god, I gotta move to the tne department then you'll have a lot of uh paid lunches.

Speaker 1: 19:38

But the same thing when a new production person comes in, I mean our chosen hv person. The owner was scared to death. When I came to a new builder, he's like I know we're getting fired and I'm like what did you hear about me?

Speaker 2: 19:52

Well, sure, right. So exactly the trades come with folks that they've worked before with, that's right, and they're like, hey, I don't really care who you're using, and they probably should be worried because it happens daily.

Speaker 1: 20:06

Because you're loyal to the builder, but what you're missing is the loyalty to the people. The people within the builder is what really makes the decision.

Speaker 2: 20:15

Oh well, sure, I mean, yeah, definitely. But at the same time you can't always be loyal to a person. I mean, when I was in the cabinet business and when I finally left Ryko and I didn't go work for another cabinet company because I had so many people say to me where are you going, I will follow you. And gosh, you know what an amazing thing to hear. You know that people are indeed loyal to you Because at the end of the day, it's a cabinet. Anybody can sell them.

Speaker 1: 20:51

Yes, they're buying you, though. Yes, when you're a salesperson, we're buying you. It's not the product at the end of the day, it's the ease of consistency. It's the ease of collaboration, our working knowledge. You know what to expect. I don't have to go retrain somebody new working knowledge.

Speaker 2: 21:07

you know what to expect. I don't have to go retrain somebody new Right, and there is a value to that. But I think you know at some point the benefit. I know I'm gonna say this backwards it's like it's, it's uneven. The benefit is not worth the the overpayment that you're making or could be making.

Speaker 1: 21:26

But I think it's both ways. I think trades and builders yes, it's great to be loyal, it's great to have those bonds Both sides need to be evaluating their business and they need to be evaluating their numbers and saying hey, from a trade side, you guys are costing us a lot of money on reruns, we're not making any money. We've got to reevaluate Right From the builder side. You've got to look at what's the market doing. Are we paying what we should pay? Because ultimately, at the end of the day, are we selling the home for the price that makes the most sense? So if you've got a community that's tough, you're not selling. It might be because you're priced too high. And why are you priced too high? Maybe because you're overpaying on X number of cost codes.

Speaker 2: 22:10

Right or hey, you're not selling the right product. Again, going back to that being a good trade partner, the hey, you're not selling the right product.

Speaker 1: 22:17

Again, going back to that being a good trade partner the product in the house, that's exactly right. You might be selling a base level fireplace and a million dollar home, which is not the right strategy. You need to upgrade that.

Speaker 2: 22:27

Right and in reverse, or you're selling this amazing cabinet in a neighborhood that doesn't have all of the higher end finishes. You know I think you want to. You know, press the easy button and kind of maintain consistency. But it's okay to move things around.

Speaker 1: 22:43

Not only is it okay, I think it's a requirement. Yeah, I mean, just as we think about doing things in our personal life, we have things that we want to do, say, on the entry level, starter, home side, and we have things we want to do on the high end, luxury, custom side. It's completely different products and it's completely different trades. Right, it's all about your minimum standard of what you're doing. So I do think loyalty is a good thing, it has its place, but at the end of the day, you still have a job to do. And I think that's the part we both want to stress is that, yes, it's good to have loyalty, yes, it's good to hit that easy button and feel comfortable that things are just going to work.

Speaker 1: 23:22

Everybody knows what time it is and, yeah, it's hard to make changes. But the other change could be you don't have a job anymore, we're not selling enough homes, we're not profitable enough. So there are changes that you might be creating by looking the other way because of your loyalty, because I'm telling you, when I first got to this company, there were a lot of those issues. I mean the frame. I told you the story about the plumber. I didn't tell you about the story of the framing supplier. We saved $30,000 on the very first house and the manager of that store told me oh, that's just the first one. You're only getting that great deal because it's the first house that you're doing business with.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Oh, they're giving you like a trimy price.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Oh yeah, that's exactly right. The teaser. I said that's fine, but I'm going to save $30,000 on this one and then I'll figure out on the next one what to do. But what they didn't know was I've had a four-year relationship with that supplier, so it's not just a try me.

Speaker 2: 24:23

Right, so you were getting completely taken advantage of.

Speaker 1: 24:26

Completely. I even told him. I said listen, I know what the numbers are, I know what the pricing should be. I'm not looking for big builder pricing I'm not dumb. But I am looking for a partnership. I'm going to pay you quickly. You don't have to chase me for your money. I'm going to tell you when the job is ready. You're going to send the material. And he said I'm doing the best I can. I said well, you got it, buddy. I fired him.

Speaker 1: 25:00

He called the owner of the company to yell at him and tell them how dare you fire us? We've been doing your business for X years. And the owner looks at me and says what should I do? I said you call back, tell him to go F himself. Nobody's going to talk to you that way. That's ridiculous. That was the loyalty, though. So they weren't just saying hey, we've been loyal to you. They were basically entitled Ouch, yeah, it really really hurt. Think about how many jobs as a custom home builder when you're trying to do five to seven homes a year, how many jobs did you lose because you were $30,000 too expensive?

Speaker 2: 25:26

Well, right, and that's just one trade. How many trades are in a house? To build a house, 50?

Speaker 1: 25:32

Yeah, a lot, a lot.

Speaker 2: 25:34

A lot. So if you were loyalty to all 50 trades and at what extra percentage you think they were padding their numbers? I mean you could have easily lost business because you were $100,000 too high, $200,000. I mean, the numbers are real.

Speaker 1: 25:52

That's exactly right. We could have easily been overcharging $1,000 to $300,000. And what we said was these are market conditions. We can't control that. This is what the market says. Was it what the market says, or is it what one trade said, that you are loyal to Right, so your loyalty is actually hurting your business? And when you don't have business, you know where that loyalty gets you.

Speaker 2: 26:13

Out of business? Oh yeah, your vendor is out of work.

Speaker 1: 26:17

And then huh, so are you. Well, and the vendor probably is smart, they've already gone on to somebody else and they're doing the same thing to somebody else. Because we're wily, we're going to figure it out. And when the vendor sees you down the road and they're talking to you, how are you doing? Oh yeah, I lost everything. We're out of business. Oh, man, sucks. You remember when things were really good for us? I mean, we did a lot of good work and really what they're saying was I made a lot of money on you. At the end of the day, loyalty is just a word, because I think, ultimately, most people, unfortunately, are going to do what's best for them and they're not completely interested in a win-win situation.

Speaker 2: 26:55

You think so?

Speaker 1: 26:57

Unfortunately, but.

Speaker 2: 26:58

But do you think that's in our nature?

Speaker 1: 27:01

I don't know. I'm just more cynical because I've been burned so many times that I just. I don't have a good feeling about it and I think you have to question things. You have to question the status quo, you have to question what you're being told.

Speaker 2: 27:13

Right, and I think you always need to come back with your best price every single time. And, like you said, if that trade is experiencing difficulties and it's like, hey, you know you're destroying all of my stuff, you know someone's always damaging my product after it's installed, I mean, have an open and candid conversation with them. Don't charge them for the thought that they may you know. You know what I mean. Like you're, you're getting penalized at the front.

Speaker 1: 27:44

You're basically saying I'm baking into my number the trip charges, the repairs and everything else, and what I'm selling to you is I don't ever backcharge you.

Speaker 2: 27:53

Yeah, I don't backcharge you. Warranty comes up, I replace it. No problem, no issue, and it's like huh.

Speaker 1: 28:01

But the problem with that approach is great. Okay, I understand what you're saying and what you think is happening. I don't know there's a problem which means I can't fix it. So my business could be burning down in the field and I have no idea. We could be having dry runs because a superintendent or project manager is not doing their due diligence and clearing the path, and then wasting your time Meaning I might have someone on my team that I need to coach up or I need to move on, but I don't know that because you've baked in this gotcha number.

Speaker 2: 28:31

Yeah, you're taking that ability away from me.

Speaker 1: 28:34

You're robbing me. Not just are you taking my money, but you're taking my opportunity to fix a problem, and as builders, we're constantly fixing problems, not always in the field, sometimes in the office, sometimes in our process.

Speaker 2: 28:46

Well, right, and as a business, if you want to pay that premium, you know, carry on. But I think we all have to start identifying these potential issues and work through them, and vendors just need to talk to us like, hey, you know, I would love to be able to charge you this amount in this neighborhood, because this guy is an amazing, he meets his schedules, he's that's right. But everything in this neighborhood. I have to stick it to you because the guy that you have in the field is making my life hell.

Speaker 1: 29:18

Well, if only home building was more that way. Commercial is definitely that way, but home building we're not that way because we're afraid if we say that kind of thing then we won't get any of the business. So we're scared to say that. And to close on something this is not just P&E guys and girls. This is not just planning and estimating. Every single person in the business has a role in budget control. Anything that's touching your operation that involves this. If you see an issue, you have to raise your hand and say something.

Speaker 2: 29:46

See something, say something.

Speaker 1: 29:48

That's right.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Hey, listen, I'm all about the margin.

Speaker 1: 30:01

As you should be, as we all should be, the better you understand the business and the better you understand the books of the business, the better, you're able to provide for the business to be successful, which means you're worth more money.

Speaker 2: 30:06

Yeah, I mean, we all want to make it.

Speaker 1: 30:08

We all want to make it, but we don't want to invest our time into it. So we don't want to learn how to be better. We don't want to learn how to help the business make more money. How to be better, we don't want to learn how to help the business make more money.

Speaker 2: 30:18

We just think you owe me more. It's like that middle child just wants everything.

Speaker 1: 30:23

I wish it was that simple, but alas it is not.

Speaker 2: 30:28

Listen thoughts on loyalty. Share it with us.

Speaker 1: 30:32

That's right. We had a completely different outline and I think we took this in a different direction and I really like the way this came out. So, um, hope you like it and, uh, if not, or if you did, see you next week, see ya, yeah.