Career Advancement Through Effective Self-Advocacy

Have you ever wondered if taking on extra work without a pay raise is worth it for your career? Let's explore this dilemma with a sprinkle of humor and a smattering of Southern hospitality, as Joshua shares his light-hearted adventure at an LSU football game in Arkansas. This sets the stage for our deep dive into the pressures many face in the workplace, especially in industries hit hard by the pandemic like home-building. We chat about the struggle between being a 'yes person' and knowing when it's time to push back, pondering whether the extra load leads to long-term career growth or just burnout. 

In our second segment, we unlock the transformative power of negotiation and self-advocacy. Discover how mastering these skills can prevent undervaluation and shape your career trajectory. With personal anecdotes, we discuss the art of balancing workload capacities and the risks of overcommitment. We break down the myth of endless productivity and challenge the age-old habits that no longer serve us. By trading less impactful tasks for meaningful ones, we aim to find a balance that maintains personal well-being while driving effectiveness. It's an episode filled with insights, reflections, and a touch of humor, all aimed at redefining career growth and responsibility.

Chapters

• 0:03 Balancing Career Growth and Responsibilities
• 14:12 Negotiating Roles and Responsibilities

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

I love that. I love that.

Speaker 2: 0:05

Hey y'all, Welcome back to another episode of Feed Me your Construction Content. I'm Carolyn McMahon.

Speaker 1: 0:10

And I am Joshua McMahon.

Speaker 2: 0:12

Ooh Joshua, you sound like you got a little touch of something.

Speaker 1: 0:15

I think so I might have the vid or the ick. I don't know what I've got. I'll tell you this I went to Arkansas enemy country and watched my LSU Tigers stomp a mud hole in those Razorbacks. What an awesome experience, though. I mean, in all seriousness, great stadium, awesome people. I mean you're wearing your LSU gear, they talk to you, they tell you where all the sites are, what to go see, where to eat. I mean it was really incredible. Those people are awesome down there.

Speaker 1: 0:41

Heck yeah, made you want to move to Arkansas. No, those people are awesome down there. Heck, yeah Made you want to move to Arkansas. No Afraid, not.

Speaker 2: 0:51

Well, let's kick off this week with a text we received from a loyal listener. Yeah, so let me set this up. So, essentially, this person just talked to someone about something, about some extra energy. I just feel like bosses expect us all to do more and more to show you should be promoted, but we weren't hired to do it, so you kind of get stuck. Are you a yes man and do it, or do you push back and say no?

Speaker 1: 1:16

So this is just really open for discussion between the two of us, Carolyn and I, because I think this is not some new phenomenon.

Speaker 2: 1:26

I think this is not some new phenomenon, right, and you know, when you get hired and you're talking about your job description and they may throw a little something in there that we may add to your job description, etc. And you're just kind of expected to do those things. Well, what happens when it's just piled on and piled on and you no longer can recognize what you were essentially or originally hired to do?

Speaker 1: 1:54

It happens all the time. It definitely happens in home building. We saw it when COVID happened and we had mass layoffs very early on in that pandemic and then we started to blow up. We were selling everything left and right so we were hiring back, but we couldn't hire back fast enough to keep up with the demand, which meant I need you to do more roles.

Speaker 2: 2:18

Well, yeah, and at that time were you a yes man or yes, ma'am? Simply to keep your job.

Speaker 1: 2:26

And I think there was a lot. I think a lot of people were in that mode that we were afraid. I remember when it first broke out and I came home and said, hey, we're going to take a pay cut or I'm going to lose my job, and I don't know which one. I'm hoping that it's just a pay cut so that everybody can keep their job and it will be fine. Or I thought we're going to just have a two-week vacation right.

Speaker 1: 2:51

So the reverse is you can keep your job, we just need you to do extra well, that's what it quickly turned into was everybody's going to keep their job and we're going to do three times the amount of business that we've ever done in our past. I mean, we crushed, we crushed it. We had record profits, record year record everything. All of the numbers were exceedingly high and it was a challenge for everybody. So, as I think back on that, and I think back on my entire career, the question is do you accept more roles, do you accept more responsibilities without the pay, without the opportunity for more pay?

Speaker 2: 3:24

without the pay, without the opportunity for more pay. Well, and I think that his note was kind of the overshadowing thing, for that was well, I'm going to do extra. So my boss is going to see that I'm killing it and he is going to promote me.

Speaker 1: 3:39

Well, and I'll tell you, I think a lot of it depends on you, the individual. What are your goals and aspirations for your career? If you have goals of being a division president one day, you want to run your own company. You want to take over the world. Whatever it is, you're going to take on those additional roles because you realize that doing it might not benefit you today, but it will probably benefit you tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Well, right through, additional experience that you can use in a future endeavor. I think that's huge. I mean, we do it all the time, we learn all the time and we can use it somewhere else.

Speaker 1: 4:21

But it's tough because if you're kind of in the twilight of your career else, but it's tough because if you're kind of in the twilight of your career, yeah, if you're at the end, twilight being maybe last five or 10 years of your career- no-transcript sort of. Yeah, depends on which day.

Speaker 2: 4:43

Right, Okay, it depends on the day, because you know when I need to work, I work and and then I coast.

Speaker 1: 4:51

Yeah, but this, this episode is not about you, but you. You in particular. I don't think you want to coast. I think that the system has beaten you down over the years, that you don't see the ability to make that change that you want to help them make. You've kind of accepted things for what they are and then other days you're like F that I'm not accepting this. We're better than this.

Speaker 2: 5:15

Right, Was it that prayer to accept the things that you can't change, Right? Something about that? But yeah, I mean I'm still asked to do extra Sure Beyond and you know, typically I'm happy to do it because I do see the goal.

Speaker 1: 5:36

Well, you're a company person. You are the company through and through, first and foremost. If the company needs you to do something, you will be the first one to roll up your sleeves and do it.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Now I could roll my eyes a little bit.

Speaker 1: 5:49

Sure, why not?

Speaker 2: 5:51

While rolling up my sleeve. But yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 5:55

But you'll get it done and that's the key part. But back to what I was saying if you've got those goals to do more and say you're not in the twilight of your career in your 20s, you're in your 30s, you're in your 40s, you still got that drive, you still have that ambition, then accepting those additional roles. It showcases your versatility Because I'll tell you, as you move into higher level roles, you've got to be very versatile. Things are not always going to be black and white, things will not always go as planned and you've got to be very flexible, very versatile, to make those what is it Pivots you got to make that pivot, okay?

Speaker 2: 6:34

So let me ask you this so so you do these things for a boss that has a reputation of asking you to go above and beyond, but historically he's never promoted within, he or she.

Speaker 1: 6:51

It happens right. So what do you do? You document it. I think that's where I went wrong. Most of my career is that I would do all of those things. I was a hard charger, I would do the extra stuff and I just knew in my mind that my boss knew what I was doing.

Speaker 2: 7:08

Right, Right. You tell someone what you're doing, not like in a in a gloating manner, but you know, with with regular check-ins, you're doing X, Y, Z and oh yeah, I took care of these things. How do you kind of set yourself up for it?

Speaker 1: 7:23

Well, the problem was for me coming up, we didn't have check-ins. I don't even remember doing annual reviews at most of the companies I worked for.

Speaker 2: 7:30

Oh yeah, that's a feel-good thing for today, right that we do check-ins.

Speaker 1: 7:35

I don't think it's a feel-good thing.

Speaker 2: 7:37

Oh, it's totally a feel-good thing, I think it's okay.

Speaker 1: 7:40

So I think it's incredibly critical for companies to do check-ins, because the market is in a position where you could leave today and go somewhere else and find another job immediately. I need to know where you're at.

Speaker 2: 7:53

Oh, so that's what the check-in is for.

Speaker 1: 7:56

I'm not saying that's the only reason you need to do a check-in, but I'm saying so Mitchell's like what are you working on?

Speaker 2: 8:02

you know, so I'll know that.

Speaker 1: 8:05

You know he knows you're mobilized he knows you're one week away from chasing this podcasting dream of yours to be a full-time podcaster dude, we could.

Speaker 1: 8:16

I mean, it was a struggle to get on tonight for me but I think, as I back, I needed to do a better job of documenting what I was doing, what I was accomplishing, what skills I was learning, how I was adding value to the business. And, as I am now, I've shared that advice with other people and I'm like, hey, don't bring me a pile of crap. Give me the high level points of how you're better than you were yesterday. So if yesterday you were $70,000, put on paper why you're worth $80,000 tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 8:51

Right, okay. So yeah, it's not only documenting, but then it's expressing and sharing.

Speaker 1: 8:57

And you have to, and if you work in an organization that doesn't give you the opportunity, they don't do an annual review scheduled on your own.

Speaker 2: 9:04

And listen. Shame on you if you're not doing an annual review. Don't look at me when you say that I'm looking at you.

Speaker 1: 9:12

There are plenty of companies that don't do annual reviews.

Speaker 2: 9:16

Shame on them. Shame, shame Be ashamed. Okay, I'm done. Are you sure? Pretty sure, shame, shame be ashamed.

Speaker 1: 9:24

Okay, I'm done. Are you sure?

Speaker 2: 9:26

Pretty sure.

Speaker 1: 9:28

All right, good. I agree, we need to do annual reviews. People need to know where they stand. They need to know what they need to do better. They need the feedback Melody. I don't care, people need feedback.

Speaker 2: 9:39

That's how we get better, but that is a structured period of feedback.

Speaker 1: 9:44

Yes, that is very true. So some of the other things that I do think are valuable to take on those additional roles. Let's be honest. Okay, let me go backwards. Not everybody's going to reward you for taking all those extra roles. Some people are going to take advantage of you. You're going to get hosed in a lot of cases and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I'll tell you, long-term it'll benefit you more than it won't.

Speaker 2: 10:12

Right, if you have that mindset and then you know listen, benefits come in different shapes and sizes, right.

Speaker 1: 10:20

Sure.

Speaker 2: 10:21

Like benefits, may not be financial.

Speaker 1: 10:25

Oh, good point, You're exactly right.

Speaker 2: 10:27

Right, you want to be recognized, you want to be heard. That's, that's critical for me. I need to be seen.

Speaker 1: 10:36

Well, I think that's a great point. So as we you and I talk about negotiating offline and we'll say, hey look, negotiating doesn't always have to be salary driven. Sometimes a company can only get you to X dollars for whatever role you have, so you have to start thinking outside the box. What other means can I negotiate for the skills and the other extra duties that I'm bringing to the table? So maybe you live near, say, a professional sports team and you're a huge fan of that team. Go in there and negotiate season tickets, Negotiate for one game a year, Whatever it is that you enjoy doing things you want to do with your family, and negotiate for an extra week of vacation.

Speaker 2: 11:25

Well, how about if you don't want to do anything with your family, but you want to negotiate some Botox and eyelash extensions?

Speaker 1: 11:32

You know what? Let's try it.

Speaker 2: 11:34

My review is coming up this month.

Speaker 1: 11:37

This is going to be interesting.

Speaker 2: 11:38

I'll let you know. Yes, I know that you can't pay me extra. However, wink, wink.

Speaker 1: 11:46

Yeah, it's a medical expense. Maybe there's a way to write it off.

Speaker 2: 11:48

I mean, I get it done at my dermatologist.

Speaker 1: 11:52

Sure.

Speaker 2: 11:53

Or I have a medical condition and I need Botox for headaches Just around the crow's feet area, exactly. But yeah, so financial, how about vacation, extra days, things that are easy to put on the books?

Speaker 1: 12:14

They're paying you anyway. Sure, you know other things that I think are really big, especially if you're ambitious. Take on those extra roles but then negotiate for leadership training. Negotiate to be a part of a mastermind group. Negotiate to have a coach that you pay monthly to help you grow in your role. Those are ways that the company can benefit your career. It benefits the company and it's not hitting their books directly.

Speaker 2: 12:42

Well, I would love to just dig into that and know how to ask for those things. Sure, so-and-so, I understand that you want me to take on these additional roles. How do you feel about blah, blah, blah? You know what I mean, because no one's comfortable asking for that stuff.

Speaker 1: 13:00

Well, what makes people uncomfortable about asking for it? Well we're comfortable accepting the additional roles, we're comfortable doing the additional work and we're all comfortable bitching about it to our peers. Yeah, but we were not comfortable standing up for ourselves.

Speaker 2: 13:18

No, we're not, Because we get trampled all the time and, you know, do we allow it to happen? No one wants a. What is it? You shouldn't ask a question that you already don't know the answer to. I mean, you don't want to get a? No, you don't want to feel deflated, defeated?

Speaker 1: 13:38

So I think that's a good point. So be careful that you don't ask a question that forces your employer into a yes or no answer. If you're putting me in a corner where I have to answer yes or no, then 90% of the time I'm probably going to say no. Put me in a position where I have options. Put me in the driver's seat. Hey, I want to take on these extra roles and responsibilities. I think it's going to take me five extra hours a week. I think this is how it helps our business. These are the three things that I'd really like you to consider to compensate me for the extra work I'm going to do for you.

Speaker 2: 14:12

Wow, have you done this before, or perhaps you need to.

Speaker 1: 14:20

I've done a little bit of negotiating.

Speaker 2: 14:21

Okay, like your life depended on it.

Speaker 1: 14:24

Yes, hey, that book changed our life. It changed our trajectory. We were royally screwed in that role. I mean, I was brutally taken advantage of and I'm not sugarcoating this the person they hired to be my counterpart to run one-third of what I was doing was making $18,000 a year more than me. He went to one community. I did three. That book changed how I negotiated and how I stood up for myself.

Speaker 2: 15:03

Well, I think y'all need to pick it up and I need to read it, because remember my reviews next week.

Speaker 1: 15:09

Oh, you should definitely read it. Well, you know what? I'll give you the cliff notes.

Speaker 2: 15:12

Okay.

Speaker 1: 15:13

We'll start, we'll do some coaching on the side.

Speaker 2: 15:15

Excellent, yeah, so. So, folks, what do you do when? When you're being asked how do you approach it? Do you look at it in the sense that you know I'm going to suffer today, but what will I get out of it the next day?

Speaker 1: 15:30

Yeah, I think it's super important to look at all those things and I think it's also important for you to just be honest with yourself and also honest with your employer that, hey, I know you need this, I just don't have the bandwidth for it. I can't do it, and if you put this on me, I'm afraid that I'm going to let you down or my other roles are going to suffer, and I know what you're probably thinking. What if they look down upon me because I turned down the opportunity to take on more responsibility?

Speaker 2: 16:03

Yeah. Do you think that they'll be disappointed? Or will they respect you for being honest? Because same thing for vendors, right? Oh yeah, I'm going to take all of that business, I can handle it all. And then you fall flat on your face because they just weren't honest. So same thing for you. Know, the employee that you're asking to do the extra work, if they were honest with you and said you know, I don't think I'm not confident that I can get you know, my, my base job done with these extra responsibilities, you know I may fumble through all of it, I just won't perform any of it. Well, do you think you'd be respected?

Speaker 1: 16:40

I think it would put your job in jeopardy and I and I love your, your example of a trade, because we do it all the time with trades. We overwhelm our trades Because it's the easy button. The easy thing to do is just to dump that additional work on your people.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Well, sure, but the reverse is true, where that trade is like yeah, yeah, give it to me, I'll figure it out later.

Speaker 1: 17:02

Well, because I think that we're wired. If you're an entrepreneur, you're wired that you just want to grow. Yep, you just want to get bigger and bigger, more value, more sales, more revenue and I think there's an entire episode on that, whereas I don't think that's the key anymore. I used to think the same way. It was like we got to get to 100 homes, we got to get to 300 homes, we got to get to 500 homes. I don't know what that means anymore. I don't know why that's relevant. If you're going to do 100 homes at a net margin of 2% or 3%, and now you're going to do 300 homes, it may be less because your systems aren't dialed in, your process isn't dialed in, your people aren't dialed in. What's the point? The point is to make more money, not do more work. How do you do more work? How do you make more money and do less work?

Speaker 2: 17:48

Right. If you did half of it at a 10% margin, you're making more money overall and you're not killing everyone.

Speaker 1: 17:54

That's exactly right. And then how do you do that same thing with all of your people? So what I would like to do is say, yeah, I need to do these extra responsibilities. What things on your plate are you currently doing that you don't need to actually be doing?

Speaker 2: 18:07

Okay, so you're just trading or you're finding another who to do those items.

Speaker 1: 18:13

Or we're upscaling that individual. So, as I'm asking you to do more responsibilities, more items, I'm also asking you to do more responsibilities, more items. I'm also asking you to dump the things that you're doing, that maybe you don't need to be doing Some things we do just because, hey, this is how we've always done it, this is what we'll always do.

Speaker 2: 18:28

But I think that's an interesting point. I don't feel that most folks are equipped to think that way. They're not.

Speaker 1: 18:36

They're not equipped to think that way. They're not. They're not equipped to think that way. And there's such a limited number of leaders that think that way and encourage their people to start thinking that way. Because when you first got to your employer, how many times did you hear people say this is the way we've done it for 20 years?

Speaker 2: 18:51

Dude, we're still saying it.

Speaker 1: 18:52

Of course, how many of those things could we dump? And the business would still run just as well as it is now, but we could take on new things that were better, that drastically improve the business. So we can take on those new roles and responsibilities. Dump the stuff that doesn't bring you value, though. So, as an employee, if you're being asked to do more great, look at your schedule. What things are you doing that you don't need to be doing?

Speaker 2: 19:21

You know, like eating and going to the bathroom.

Speaker 1: 19:25

Oh my God, yes, I mean, we got it to where people stop smoking. Stop with the smoke breaks. Well, why are you eating lunch? Cut the crap and get back to work.

Speaker 2: 19:33

I see this void in your schedule and it says lunch. You think you could narrow that down?

Speaker 1: 19:40

15 minutes and look, you've got to eat lunch at your desk while you're working.

Speaker 2: 19:47

God, I think I do that now actually.

Speaker 1: 19:50

I do do that now, but you know I value lunch. You need that lunch break.

Speaker 2: 19:54

You need to reset your mind yeah, you need the separation, All right. Well, think like Josh.

Speaker 1: 20:01

Take on those extra roles and responsibilities, but look for ways to dump those other things that you don't need to do. But also make sure you're negotiating your own compensation up front. Work out the deal. If we say, hey, customer, you want to do a change to your project, great, we need a change order. To do a change to your project Great, we need a change order. What do you think your boss is doing to ask you to do those extra roles and responsibilities? They're saying we want to change to the way you do your business, no problem, let's do a change order.

Speaker 2: 20:30

Oh man, I'm going to go ask for a change order.

Speaker 1: 20:33

My salary is based on X, Y and Z. Now you want to change order. Change order comes with this.

Speaker 2: 20:45

I'm sorry, Mr or Mrs Boss, I need a damn lunch break and I'm negotiating in these extra responsibilities and I'm going to slap you with a fee, yes, so don't ask me again. Piss off.

Speaker 1: 20:54

So I say, take on those extra roles, take on those extra responsibilities, embrace it, lean into it, but negotiate for what's yours.

Speaker 2: 21:02

All right, go to it. All right, see you.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Till next week yeah.