Feed Me Your Construction Content

Navigating Career Paths in Construction: Insights with Chris Mull

• Joshua & Carolyn McMahon • Season 3 • Episode 44

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Chris Mull from Kempsville Building Material, a key figure in the Carter Lumber family, joins us to reveal the often unexpected paths that lead to fulfilling careers in the construction industry. From our first meeting during challenging career moments to the serendipitous connections that shaped our professional journeys, we share the profound impact of industry friendships and the critical importance of open communication. Together, we explore the strength found in a dynamic team and the resilience needed to manage the inevitable challenges of the construction world, particularly in bustling markets like Richmond and Charlottesville.

Unearth the complexities of the construction industry as we tackle logistical hurdles and market disruptions, with a keen focus on adapting to the COVID-19 pandemic's ripple effects on the supply chain. Chris's transformative influence in markets like Richmond and Charlottesville showcases the beneficial disruptions that can emerge from strategic changes. We discuss crucial learnings from these experiences, emphasizing the need for constructive criticism and teamwork to overcome obstacles, all while highlighting the ongoing quest for improved service levels and the strategic management of labor shortages.

We shift the spotlight to the future, contemplating how the construction industry can attract and nurture the next generation of talent. By offering engaging roles, clear growth paths, and leveraging technology, we can make construction careers appealing to young workers. Our conversation also highlights the evolving labor market, where personal responsibility and action take center stage. As we wrap up, listeners are encouraged to chase their goals with passion and accountability, paving the way for a rewarding and dynamic career in the trades.

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Carolyn can be found on LinkedIn at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolyn-mcmahon-937b89158
Joshua can be found on LinkedIn at:
www.linkedin.com/in/joshuamcmahon15
Email for feedback, questions, complaints, etc:
mcmahonjoshua15@gmail.com

Daily Journal: https://amzn.to/41p9aKE

Speaker 2:

I love that. I love that.

Speaker 3:

Hey y'all, Welcome back to another episode of Feed Me your Construction Content. I am Carolyn McMahon.

Speaker 1:

I am Joshua McMahon.

Speaker 3:

Nice to be back for another week.

Speaker 1:

It's great to be back, and let me tell you why it's great to be back. One of my favorite people in the industry is Chris Moll, with Kempsville, and I'll tell you a little bit of background about me before I get into talking with Chris and Kempsville. And I'll tell you a little bit of background about me before I get into talking with Chris, and Kempsville is owned by Carter Lumber. One of my first jobs after high school was working at Carter Lumber and pulling lumber in the yard. I don't even think Chris knew this In Gloucester, virginia. That's what I did. I pulled lumber and I loved it because it was hard work. It got me pumped up.

Speaker 3:

Huh, and so you're. You know, fast forward today. I couldn't imagine you doing that at all.

Speaker 1:

I know.

Speaker 3:

Not the hard work part. Well, maybe a little bit.

Speaker 1:

All of it, I've come a long ways in my life.

Speaker 3:

Well, welcome, Chris.

Speaker 1:

Chris, it's good to have you on the show, sir.

Speaker 2:

Well, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

It's been a long time coming.

Speaker 2:

So now I know where I need to go next time. I need a lumber puller.

Speaker 1:

That's exactly right. I just reached out to Josh.

Speaker 3:

Chris, yeah, it's like I need somebody. Who can I go to? You know, josh, you put on your, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Free workout. Yeah yeah, yes, exactly.

Speaker 3:

You can run around the yard instead of running around the neighborhood.

Speaker 2:

Don't even need a forklift, that's exactly right.

Speaker 3:

Hey well, did you know that I was forklift certified? I know how to drive a forklift. Oh, so you could also go work for Kempsville and be a puller. Yeah, reach truck, forklift and my Home Depot days.

Speaker 1:

It could be a family affair.

Speaker 2:

I have a stand at Home Depot as well.

Speaker 3:

Oh my God, I think everyone starts at some sort of home building store at some point.

Speaker 1:

Why not? I think it's a great start. It was a great start for me. I met an architect who was remodeling his home on the river in Gloucester, and that's how I got a job working with him as a remodeler labor and uh, and then the rest is history. Rest is history From labor from lumber polar labor to VP of a custom home builder.

Speaker 3:

That, that was how quick my transition All right, quick, as in what days?

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2:

Overnight when we moved to the Outer Banks in 2003, we had a short stint at Home Depot. There I met somebody in the building industry, had no experience and from 2003 to today it's all we know. Wow, I helped somebody one night with an appliance issue that worked at a local lumberyard and got pulled into the lumber business and boom off we went.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's funny because our friend Melody Hackett she you can't talk about the competition on this episode, she's still a person.

Speaker 3:

She's a person. She worked at Lowe's and got pulled by a builder. I'm trying to make a connection here Okay. Don't make everything, so Anyway.

Speaker 1:

I don't want any bad blood before we even get three minutes into the show.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I went from Home Depot to being a cabinet designer.

Speaker 1:

You did, but you're talking about, you know, other suppliers. I don't want Chris to be like F this show. I'm out of here.

Speaker 3:

Competition is good. He can rise to the top.

Speaker 1:

He can, that's right, but will I?

Speaker 3:

You're up for the challenge? Heck, yeah, but will I?

Speaker 1:

You're up for the challenge? Heck, yeah, you're definitely up for the challenge. I think you can do it. All right, let's get into this thing. Chris, thank you very much for being on the show. Like I said, we've been good friends for several years. You first came into the market the Richmond market around the same time that I became the director of construction of a struggling business from a production side, and I think that the first time I met you. Very matter of fact, this is what I'm going to do for your business. This is how I'll support you, and I appreciated that about you, because I needed people like that in my corner in order to do what I needed to do. And and I don't remember what you said to your people about me after a meeting, but maybe you recall- I think you and I were in a.

Speaker 2:

It seemed like we were in a very similar place at the time. We were both somewhere that definitely needed to be turned around, and it was like you were on that ship, by yourself at sea, floating around, drifting around, trying to get it all and and just coincidence, we found each other.

Speaker 3:

So oh, it's like a love story. It was a love story, but I do remember him coming home and saying that he had met a really interesting guy and he was so like-minded, which is rare, and I was like, oh, his poor wife. But it was a good. You know you meet someone that is kind of like you, understands the struggles, gives out a serving of realism on things and delivers what you say you're going to do. I mean, it's refreshing.

Speaker 1:

Well it is, and the thing that I liked about working with you, chris, was that I could pick up the phone and I could tell you how I was feeling about something. If your team let our team down or didn't do something right and you didn't take anything personally, you would say let me look into it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, that's just the business that we're in. We're not dealing with robots and machinery, it's people, and anytime you get a lot of people involved, you're going to have problems.

Speaker 1:

You're going to have mistakes.

Speaker 3:

The more people you got, the more mistakes you're going to have. We tend to muck it up.

Speaker 2:

And you can't. You can't fix problems by flying off the handle, getting upset, throwing temper tantrums. You got to sit down and figure out. Okay, this is what I did wrong. How do we do it better? How do we not rinse and repeat this process? It's pretty simple if you think about it.

Speaker 3:

But don't you think too, given the opportunity to fix it? I find in my workplace that nobody talks to anybody they could be harboring some resentment toward you and you don't even know, because you know they don't want to talk to you about screwing up or things like that, like you know how the receiving party will take it. Cause, what if you did fly off the handle and be like, oh well, you know you weren't prepared, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Your experience was shit because you set the stage for us to fail. I mean, you know hearing that kind of thing. I mean, a lot of people may not talk to you.

Speaker 2:

Then it's it's tough for a lot of people to have those conversations, they're awkward, and it's just easier for me to say you know what, carolyn, you're out, I'm just going to, yeah, blocking you, I'm cutting you off, I'm shutting you out, I'm just going to go over here from now on and, because it's easy, right, yes, then to call somebody out and say, hey, man, what, what? Tell me what you were thinking here.

Speaker 1:

Right, you know and and that's where we really saw eye to eye because we both knew what the challenges were that we had in front of us with our respective companies. So we had a tremendous amount of respect for one another. So I was not coming at you in an adversarial way, it was more. This is what I'm seeing. This is where I think you can improve and, to my delight, you would do the exact same for me. We went out to drop a load of lumber and when we got there there was stuff in the way we couldn't put anywhere. The superintendent said you know F, you put it down anyways. So it gave me the opportunity to self-evaluate what we were doing and make those corrections internally, which, if you're turning something around, that's what you need. That's right. You need a team. You need a team of people to help you make it better.

Speaker 2:

Constructive criticism. It's healthy.

Speaker 1:

It's extremely healthy. Disagreeing with people is is a really good thing, it's a privilege, and I think that we've lost sight of that in this country and this this being the week that we just had our election we see a lot of disrespect and not disagreement. We're not disagreeing with what took place or what happened. We're disrespecting each other and it's an us versus them mentality, and if you've been in the construction industry for long enough, you know that that's kind of a normal sense of the way we do business.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yep. You're not allowed to disagree in this country anymore.

Speaker 1:

No, absolutely not. Well, Chris, you've come into the Richmond market. I think you've made a big impact with Kempsville and what you guys are doing and we're currently using you on some projects we're doing on the custom side in Charlottesville, which is an hour and some change away, and, um, you've been a a welcoming disruption to the Charlottesville market because, uh, things were not fair across the board from the way suppliers treated builders.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we've started actually doing a little more and a little more in Charlottesville and we're, you know, as this. As Richmond kind of slowed down this summer, we kind of tried to figure out where can we go and try to fill some voids. But, you know, after the election we'll see where things go. Um, it's a, it's it. It could create some challenges for us trying to service, you know, an hour and a half down the road and service the way we want to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that's a key differentiator. You want to provide a health high level of service. You want to provide a high level of service. You want to turn things around within.

Speaker 2:

How fast do you want to turn things around? You know 48 hours would be. You know I think everybody wants, expects, 24 hours, but it's tough, you know, I think, if I don't think it's too much to ask for, hey, I'm going to build a house. Do you know, two days ahead of time, that you're going to start a house and you're going to put framing on the ground?

Speaker 3:

Likely, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so, but look.

Speaker 3:

That's just me. I've never built a house. We still get the call.

Speaker 2:

Hey, I'm building a house tomorrow. Do you think you can get me a framing package?

Speaker 3:

tomorrow.

Speaker 2:

I'm building a house tomorrow, or it could be. We've decided to put windows in the house. Can we get them Friday?

Speaker 3:

Oh windows.

Speaker 1:

People do put windows in houses Sometimes. Yeah, picture windows too, I imagine.

Speaker 3:

Or don't wait six weeks for them. They don't want to wait the normal six weeks, four weeks.

Speaker 1:

I think four to six weeks is reasonable for windows. I mean, during COVID, my God, it was six months to get a flipping window.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, think back before COVID you, my God, it was six months to get a flipping window. Yeah Well, think back before COVID. You know you could get in my windows in a week, right, yes, so how big of an adjustment was that for builders to go from getting windows in a week to 19 weeks?

Speaker 1:

Oh, it was a massive disruption when you think about the carrying cost of a home and now you have to just sit on, I don't know, $150,000 worth of material that you can't turn over.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know $150,000 worth of material that you can't turn over. It's painful. It was the same way for the dealers. It was a juggling act, trying to forecast which models you were going to be selling and keeping windows in stock, and then when it all ended, then everybody had to assess. I think we did a fairly good job of it. We didn't have a matter of fact I don't think we had any, but I mean, I've heard some horror stories of some dealers that had quite a lot of inventory on the ground that had to be moved.

Speaker 3:

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I never even. I guess I did think about the supplier side, but hearing you say it just kind of reminds me of that really bad experience of how everybody felt during side. But hearing you say it just kind of reminds me of that really bad experience of how everybody felt during COVID. But just how you must have been having to juggle what windows to bring in, what trim packages, what you're not doing appliances, but what to bring in and have on the shelf, because what happened in OA and the housing crisis was we stopped stocking material.

Speaker 3:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

So you didn't have material just sitting around waiting to be used and now you've got to pre-plan. What material do I stock? So I'm ready for the builder.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, we actually started stocking in my windows during COVID just to try to help relieve that pressure. But this is what we stock, yep.

Speaker 3:

Build the house around this. There's no, there's no more twins.

Speaker 2:

There's no more triples. Right, they're all singles. Yep, mull them in the field if you want, if you want doubles and triples, but this is what we're doing. Some, some took to it, some didn't.

Speaker 1:

But Well, I think that's what you have to do you you get punched in the face with something.

Speaker 2:

You've got to figure out how to work around that and do something different. And that was, you know, that was kind of our. That was one of our biggest challenges during COVID is try to figure out how to how to better serve in a time where getting material was just it was extremely difficult.

Speaker 3:

Well, now that you know material shortages I mean they're still around for certain things, but do you feel like you've kind of kept that high customer level? You know now that your foot is kind of off the gas with that. You know, as we're coming out of COVID, do you feel like your levels of service are still, you know, where you want them to be? You know, from that approach, like you know, during COVID you tried to, you know, do all you can but you didn't let your foot off the gas because just you know you're coming down from COVID.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I think if you want to be really successful at anything, you need to constantly be looking at how can I do this better, how can I do that better? And, regardless of how bad an experience was, what can I take away from it, what did I learn from it, um, and how can I use it to be better. So, will will we ever be where I want to be from a service standpoint? Probably not, but I think that I think that's what keeps driving us and and allowing us to to get a little better. I mean, I think we've. We've come a long ways in the last three or four years, but we've still got. You know, there's always, just always, room for improvement. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, From the builder side you've you've come a long way from when you first got to the market and took over that, that branch, to where you are now. And I know from experience being a builder and seeing the service then versus the service now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean I think we've taken a lot of the big steps, but there's still a lot of little steps that we can take every day, just by paying attention to what we did wrong and how to fix it.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think that's true. And what do you think the next, like it's easy to say, here's the low hanging fruit, let's go fix this. That that's the easy thing to do, and and anybody that's taken over um a troubling business. That's what you focus on first, because you can show your impact right away. What do you think is the next big thing for you to focus on to really make those next steps?

Speaker 2:

I think we've. We've really got to focus on our people and our team. Um, we we've spent the last three years building the team that we have today and it's a phenomenal team. But there's so many new challenges today with, especially on the labor side of things, the physical labor, labor intensive jobs that we have at, you know, lumber yards, you know pulling frame and loads is just probably at the top of that list. I've hired several people here recently for warehouse positions and you know they would come in and say I'll do anything for you, but don't put me out there on that yard.

Speaker 3:

Don't put me out there in the sun.

Speaker 2:

Don't put me out there on that yard. So not a problem finding people to work in the office, in the warehouse drivers, but we're facing some challenges right now on the lumber yard. We're facing some challenges right now on the lumber yard. So I mean, for me, that's our, our, our biggest challenge to try to overcome and figure out. And I think it starts with you know, we've got to figure out new ways to take care of our people and, um, give them buy-in and and and make them feel like it's more than just a more than just a lumber puller.

Speaker 3:

Well, yeah, what's the next step? If I do this, if I pull this lumber and do it for like six months? Is there a path for me to do something else, or am I stuck in this job?

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm living proof of it. I started pulling lumber. That's how I got introduced to the world of home building and construction. I now currently run a custom home builder doing seven to $10 million a year.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, but Chris wants to keep you. Oh yeah, you got this awesome lumber puller. Let me just hire him away.

Speaker 2:

And that's the challenge, See. I mean, you get a Josh that's on a fast track and you know, if you don't create something for him, he's going to leave.

Speaker 3:

He's gone yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, okay, well, josh, the first thing we got to do is we got to backfill you. So that's the first thing we got to do. Well, you run those ads and nothing comes in. It's crickets, yeah. So that's. The challenge today is where is that coming from? Do we have another batch of young people coming along with some serious work ethic, or is Elon Musk going to create some machines for us?

Speaker 3:

Well right, it's got to be something. It's got to be something you know it's like cool. If there won't be a labor, like a body to do the job, then where's the technology to?

Speaker 2:

do it. You can sell all the framing you want, but if you can't put it together and put it on a truck, it really doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:

Well, it is going to come from somewhere. But I think the big thing you've got to do from the lumber pulling side is you've got to make it fun again and you've got to show people how it is fun to go, work hard, see the fruits of your labor and really enjoy what you're doing. That's what I loved about it. I love the freedom about it too. Nobody was managing me. You get your list, you go out there and pull that lumber, you put it on the truck and then you're back to doing everything. Nobody's telling you what to do, and for me, I need that type of environment.

Speaker 1:

I'm not saying that's how your world is.

Speaker 2:

I'm just saying that's what it was for me. I'm not saying that's how your world is, just say that's what it was for me. I still have days where I'll put my phone on by break and I'll go get on a forklift and I'll go out there and I'll build loads. Or I'll go out there and I'll unload a rail car and I don't hear that phone ring and it's just a beautiful day.

Speaker 1:

I'm out riding around.

Speaker 2:

It's just it's there's something about it, so um, I've I've been on a forklift my entire life, so it's second nature to me.

Speaker 1:

Well, the job that we do today is such a tax on your mind and and when I was coming up and I was doing physical labor, I was like I can't wait, so I just use my mind. And now, similar to you, I'm like it doesn't bother me to go out in the field and swing a hammer every now and again, because the physical side is much easier than the mental side. I'm exhausted at the end of a hard day.

Speaker 3:

Yeah right, how could I be so tired and I really didn't do anything.

Speaker 1:

But you're making decisions that are very impactful. They decide a lot of people's future, so it's harder on you, but what do you think that that attributes to?

Speaker 3:

Because we were talking earlier about the lumber business is such a small subset, right, you know windows, doors, trim, all the thing you know with lumber for. For me, like you said, it's like a race to the bottom on on a lot of things. So I mean with lumber sales, you know being critical, right, you need to buy lumber to build a house, but it's one of the, I guess, the cheapest well, I hope yeah.

Speaker 1:

So what's the big driver for kemsville? When you sell, when you sell materials, what's your big driver? What keeps the doors open?

Speaker 2:

well, it's, it's got, it's got to be lumber. I mean, I think that's even when you go into a new builder lumber is that that gateway drug? That's what gets you in the door.

Speaker 1:

I like that you're, you're, do you give them a little taste first, like you give them like three, two by fours for free, just so they get a feel for what you got well, you give them free premiums.

Speaker 3:

They're really good ones, oh right, oh, like they've been like vetted, like man, if this is what my load is gonna look like. Oh, slide the number three oh, slot them in you.

Speaker 1:

You don't give them the Home Depot special out the gate. You know that crooked tree that grew to the left.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, framing and probably framing and components, you know EWP and trust, that's kind of our entrance. That's your bread, and butter Until we get in the door.

Speaker 1:

Yep.

Speaker 3:

But you know from like, how do you entice, like I said, youth, because I would imagine those are the folks that are fueling that. You know. As far as pay benefits, I mean, you know, if you're selling a really expensive widget, you would imagine then the cost to create that would be I don't know higher, and then your labor would be higher. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, this is a. I think we have a lot to sell to young people. You know, I tried for years on the Outer Banks to get you know some of the schools to send me, send me your best and brightest that aren't leaving and going to college in the summertime. Let me show them what we have to offer. I like that, and I don't think I ever got one.

Speaker 3:

It's like where are these kids going? What are they doing?

Speaker 2:

I didn't have a school, I didn't have a guidance counselor. Somebody called me and go, hey, this kid right here is interested in coming to work for you. I never had that. I mean, I had, you know, my son, some employees that you know. Their kids come in, but the schools I don't know. They just didn't buy into it for whatever reason. Um, but it's a great industry. I mean it's, it's you know, the, the, the compensation range, and and the potential is just, it's endless.

Speaker 3:

Well, I think that's what you have to sell. You have to sell the potential. You know you get your foot in the door. I mean, that's the great story, right? If someone started their career and they, you know, they were an order puller and now they're, you know, vp of a custom home builder. I mean, josh, you're not that old, it didn't take you, I mean that long.

Speaker 1:

No, it take you, I mean, that long.

Speaker 3:

No, it didn't take me that long and it would have been quicker if I had a more clear vision earlier in my life. Right, and you know the military, you know subtract five years from that. But you know like your rise can be really quick.

Speaker 2:

It's on you even from a benefit standpoint. I mean, you know, health insurance company match 401k, I mean it's just a. You know I can. As far as carter lumber goes, it's just a great company to work for. So I just don't see why it's so difficult to draw in young talent.

Speaker 3:

Why is it so damn hard?

Speaker 1:

You got to get on TikTok. That's where all the kids are today.

Speaker 2:

I struggle with it.

Speaker 1:

I'm half joking with that statement, but what I really think you'll benefit from is not just the school go and talk to the football coaches, talk to the wrestling coaches, talk to the people that are scrappy, that want to work like. I was a wrestler. I loved working hard. I just loved it, and when I went and did football, I was bored because it was too laid back and too easy. I wanted to get my teeth kicked in. That's what I'm just, you know, sick individual.

Speaker 2:

Maybe that's an approach I need to take.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that you need the degenerates of the school.

Speaker 1:

You know, let me take you. You're saying the athletes are the degenerates.

Speaker 3:

But that could be. You know, let me take your hazard, youth, you know. Take them to the lumberyard or jail.

Speaker 1:

Take the individuals that want to work hard, that have this drive. I want to go win on Friday night. I want to win Wednesday night on the wrestling mat. Those individuals want to work hard and you're giving them an opportunity to do something, make money, create a future for themselves and they get to work hard.

Speaker 2:

Because that's where it starts, and I think that's what our challenge is today. Most young people, when they come out of school today, they want to be right at the top or somewhere near me too.

Speaker 2:

They don't want to well you know they don't want to put the time in because I think for for our industry you just can't put a price tag on it. From starting at the bottom and working your way through you, you get a true appreciation and understanding for what what that guy's day is like, that's out there pulling that dispatcher. You know how hard that is that driver, how hard when, when you've done those jobs, it just I think it's. You just can't skip those steps in our industry right and I get the instant gratification.

Speaker 3:

I mean, that's what we're all about. You know, that's our, that's our Amazon. We want it. We want it now. We want success overnight and unfortunately, it's. It doesn't come to most of us like that.

Speaker 2:

Well, somewhere somebody told, told them this is how it is, and that's what I don't understand. Who, who told them that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, who was that person?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you deserve everything now.

Speaker 1:

There was an entire generation. I think. When you look at people who had nothing as they came up, they worked their tails off to get everything they have. Their kids worked hard to continue to grow, that their children inherited this massive amount of wealth and they stopped working. They taught their kids you don't have to work hard. We're coming into a time when the new generation is coming up and they stopped working. They taught their kids you don't have to work hard. We're coming into a time when the new generation is coming up and they're going to say I've got to work hard to get what I want and we're going to see it reset. History repeats itself.

Speaker 2:

I think it is. You're already hearing more and more about younger people getting more involved in trade schools.

Speaker 3:

Right that college is not necessarily the answer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we went through a phase and we've got to work through it. That's right, but we get it turned around.

Speaker 1:

It's already happening. It's already happening. It was only 26 years ago that they were pushing if you don't go to college, you won't make it. I didn't go to college until I was later in life. And I went to college, never even thought about it.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I went to a couple, I didn't finish, I did go to a party.

Speaker 2:

Does that count?

Speaker 1:

Yes, it does. Was that at a college? It was, because I think that's the only requirement.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, I've been to college.

Speaker 1:

Was it at college.

Speaker 3:

You know, you dipped your toe into the college lifestyle.

Speaker 1:

My battery's about to die and I'm like paying attention to it, but I think we can get four more minutes Okay.

Speaker 3:

That's what she said.

Speaker 1:

Let's. Let's stay on this, this challenge of labor, cause here's what I really see happening. Like we know, we need to have a youth movement, and I think that we're starting to really focus on that, because the real thing is we have an aging out issue. Yes, we do. Most businesses are we're aging out. Yes, we do, most businesses were aging out.

Speaker 1:

And if we don't replace it with somebody and it doesn't even have to be just youth it could be somebody who was a career restaurant worker, somebody who worked in the restaurant industry. It could be somebody who was an auto mechanic for their whole career. It could be someone who went to college for marketing and hates it now. So I don't think we just market to the high schools. I think it's more than that, and that's what I learned from COVID was don't cut yourself off and only look for these people, look for all of them. So I think the big thing is creating a vision for where your business is going and what you're going to do and how you're going to do things, and I think that's what we have to do as individuals and as businesses.

Speaker 3:

So you're saying the TikTok, though you know you get some guys in the lumberyard dancing around you. Videotape it. Look how much fun they're having.

Speaker 1:

You know, maybe it's not a TikTok video, maybe it's not a Kempsville dance, but maybe it's just showing. What does the job even entail? What are you doing? How are you interacting with people? What do you know? Just walk around with a recording and just record a day in the life. What do we do on that yard? I mean, we could go out there and do a live podcast on the yard and talk to some of the guys or just the importance of it.

Speaker 3:

It's a big, important job.

Speaker 2:

It is Building houses is important.

Speaker 1:

It is Well. Building houses is what fuels our economy for the most part.

Speaker 3:

Right, because how many trades you know touch a house and how many people, like physical people, does it involve?

Speaker 1:

God. Look at wealth. When you start owning homes or a home and you have equity in that home, you start to create real wealth. Going to work every day, that's just making money. But when you start creating wealth that you've got money for a much longer period of time and then you can have mailbox money because now you're renting one of those homes or something else, that's when you start to shift your lifestyle. That's when who gets elected to the White House doesn't really matter to you.

Speaker 3:

Right, because your day-to-day is not going to change.

Speaker 2:

That's right. It's when interest rates don't matter to you.

Speaker 1:

That's right Well you know, interest rates are a determining factor on what you do, but you can't let it stop you from moving forward.

Speaker 3:

Right, the landscape may look a little different. Right, the house you wanted may not come to fruition today. Maybe it's a smaller house. Maybe it's a smaller house, maybe it's a little further out than what you wanted, but just getting there. And then how do you get there With lumber Yay.

Speaker 1:

So you pulled it all back together. That's right.

Speaker 3:

It all starts somewhere.

Speaker 1:

Well, Chris, what are you seeing in the market, With the election ending and interest rates where they are? What have you seen over the last three months? What's happening to your business and in the market?

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, July and September were. They were really challenging months for us. I think it was. You know everything was kind of winding down. We weren't seeing a whole lot of new communities opening up. Don't think things were really. Sales weren't on fire like they had been um. But it seems like in october things have bounced back, whether that's kids going back to school, family vacations are wrapped up um interest rates. Of course, you know interest rates coming down a little bit in october probably didn't hurt um the cause of selling homes. But now we're seeing, we're finally seeing new communities opening up you know, communities that have been pre-sold getting in there and actually building now.

Speaker 2:

But you know, the, the big, the big driving factor the last 30 days that I've heard was it's all about the election. What's going to happen? Right, Everyone waiting, Everybody waiting.

Speaker 3:

It's all about the election. What's going to happen? Yes, right, everyone waiting.

Speaker 2:

Everybody waiting. I don't know why or what the election had to do with Josh buying his next home, but it seems like the election went the way that it was supposed to go, so I'm expecting lots of houses to be built next week.

Speaker 3:

Well, I think that consumer confidence is attached to the presidency. Now. Granted, I don't know what you did when there wasn't an election year, right, you, just you kept on swimming, you did what you need to do and you didn't kind of hold on to that. But with the election looming, you know, builder just consumer confidence, I mean it just plays this huge role, and then you're, oh, I need to wait to see what the election I mean it really doesn't mean anything, like you said, but at the same time it was inexplicably tied to that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I don't know about you guys, but I know for us since as far back as I can remember. I mean we've been through the good, bad and ugly when it comes to presidents and administrations and it never changed the fact that you still got to get up in the morning. You got to lace up your boots. You got to go to work and provide for your family. It doesn't matter what's going on outside of that, so we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1:

That's what matters, right? So we, as individuals, we bought a lot during this election cycle. We closed on the I can't remember if it was election day or the results, I can't remember which one, because basically the world was not going to end. We're still going to move forward. We still got to eat, we still got to make money, we're going to do whatever we have to do and whatever happened with the election results, we were going to figure it out and move forward. It wasn't going to change how we live our life. And I'll say you know last piece about the election what I did on the day of the results. When I woke up, I called my Republican friends and said congratulations, don't gloat. Half the country's hurting, they're not in a good place, so do what you do every election and go to work. Yeah, that's right. And then I called my my Democrat friends and said you know, um, um, I know you're hurting, we're going to get through this, everything's going to be just fine.

Speaker 2:

It's a good message.

Speaker 1:

At the end of the day, you have to keep getting up and going back to work and doing your thing. And if you, if you're on the losing end of this election the president didn't change anything for you Get passionate about something that you really want to do and go do it. You don't need the president to tell you oh yeah, you can get serious about this and invest your time and money into it. Just go do it.

Speaker 2:

The man in the mirror controls your destiny.

Speaker 1:

That's right, go, do whatever we need to do.

Speaker 2:

That's right. It's easy to have somebody else to blame.

Speaker 1:

Oh, we love that.

Speaker 2:

It's not my fault.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think this has been great, chris. Our battery is just about dead, so we're going to have to make this a wrap, even though I don't want to. Oh, part one part one yes, I like that.

Speaker 3:

We have a new battery, so thanks so much for being on, no problem, thanks for having us. Until next week, see ya, yeah.

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