Building Success Through Strategic Collaboration

Melody Hackett from 84 Lumber returns to Feed Me Your Construction Content, offering a compelling look into the strategic evolution of construction services. Melody shares how 84 Lumber is revolutionizing the industry by shifting to turnkey solutions, providing both labor and materials for projects like trim and framing. This approach not only streamlines the construction process but also reduces oversight challenges and vendor relationships, despite a slight initial cost increase. Discover why this model is particularly beneficial for smaller builders and how it transforms construction management.

The episode sheds light on how companies are harnessing value-added services to stand out in the competitive Virginia construction market. Melody discusses the importance of strong trade relationships and offering comprehensive services to improve project efficiency and minimize errors. We also examine the ongoing challenge of recruiting new talent and the strategic benefits of outsourcing specialized tasks. With market fluctuations as a constant backdrop, the conversation includes tips on pre-ordering supplies to safeguard against price shifts.

Transformation is the name of the game in the building industry, and it's vital for builders to understand their costs and processes thoroughly. Melody explores the misconceptions builders often have and underscores the importance of precise cost estimation and material takeoff services. We delve into the critical role of industry networking, highlighting trade councils and the dynamic world of events like builder speed dating. Melody shares valuable insights into how these interactions foster communication and collaboration, creating a more robust and interconnected construction community.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:03

I love that. I love that.

Speaker 3 0:05

Hey y'all, Welcome back to another episode of Feed Me your Construction Content. I'm Carolyn McMahon.

Speaker 1 0:10

And I am Joshua McMahon.

Speaker 3 0:11

Good to be back.

Speaker 1 0:12

It's great to be back with our friend Melody Hackett from 84 Lumber for round three.

Speaker 3 0:17

Round three. I don't think anyone has made it. It's like American Ninja. Whatever I mean, she made it through the gauntlet she's back for the third time in a row. Love it.

Speaker 2 0:28

Thank you all so much for having me Welcome. Thank you.

Speaker 3 0:37

Again, we talk pre-show and all this great stuff comes out before the show, and then we hit record and then we all look at each other like we got nothing.

Speaker 1 0:42

I've got three notes on my notebook for us to talk about. Josh is going to save us. Oh, look at each other. Like we got nothing. I've got three notes on my notebook all right, josh is gonna save us oh good again, I'm just, I bring the humor exactly that's about it.

Speaker 1 0:53

Well, I think on the last show or maybe the previous, we had talked about your time at 84 lumber and how you're positioning the business really to go after more turnkey work Turnkey being trim, framing, those sort of things, and turnkey being labor and material, where 84 Lumber, or most suppliers, are typically suppliers and you saw a need to be a turnkey provider and I'm curious, how's that been working out for you over the last few months?

Speaker 2 1:19

So it has been working out a lot better than I thought. When I first went in I thought, you know we would be doing it more for the smaller builders, the more custom builders you know, the ones that were paying way too much for labor. Um, you know they were having to do takeoffs and when you do turnkey you don't have to worry about any of that. You don't have to worry about the takeoff. I do lumber, you know. I Joyce trusses, windows, doors, house wrap, the whole nine. So you just send us the plans and I send you a number and of course you compare it to what you know. You think you should have paid Um, and then there are no VPOs. You know we take it from beginning to end and that's the one number that you get.

Speaker 3 2:02

Well, I think that's a huge thing, especially you said something about smaller builders. I imagine smaller builders don't have a bunch of staff right. They're typically not staff heavy.

Speaker 1 2:12

No.

Speaker 3 2:13

Unless somebody I know looking at them. But you sell a product and it is all in one, so there's less oversight. Yes, they have a problem. They call you or you know whoever you've deemed as their their touch point for that. So less that. No fill-ins Cause. Remember when we built our house, I, I, I got the the low down on fill-in orders, like Jesus Christ, another fill-in order, and then your cheap price gets blown up.

Speaker 2 2:46

yes, right, because the bps and dumpster pulls yes whoa tell me about dumpster pulls well, you have less dumpster pulls and I know how expensive they are for you they're very expensive, especially, especially in the charlottesville market.

Speaker 1 3:01

That's600 price point for dumpsters is ridiculous. Somebody has an opportunity to go up there and do dumpsters and make a good living.

Speaker 3 3:09

Wow, so you've been able to convert folks who historically purchased material separate and then worked with someone who does labor.

Speaker 2 3:18

Yes, and then I have hired a full-time project manager Nice, who is, you know, I would consider old school, so he knows how to frame a house. Okay, so you don't need supervision during that phase of construction.

Speaker 3 3:36

Well, what does that oversight look like? Is he walking the jobs?

Speaker 2 3:39

Daily. Okay, so first you have a pre-con meeting, so they'll go in there, builder, my guy, framer, they'll meet before it even starts and then, when they're done, they'll also have a meeting and then you know, they'll let us know. You know, we got a framing inspection, this needs to be done, or this needs to be done. Um, but yes, we take over that whole scope.

Speaker 3 4:00

Nice, okay, all right. Well, so the oversight piece is taken care of. Check what about price?

Speaker 2 4:06

Pricing I would say 10 to 15%. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 4:13

Yeah, 10 to 15%.

Speaker 2 4:15

More.

Speaker 1 4:16

Oh, it's 10 to 15% more than what they're used to paying, but that's collectively. You're talking over framing, but that's collectively. You're talking over framing windows doors. You're paying 10% to 15% over multiple stages and labor to do all of that work. Yes 10% to 15% is a small price to pay, depending on how much volume you're doing.

Speaker 2 4:36

Well, also because a lot of times builders will get VPOs for material and it'll come out and they'll get 50 sheets of OSB. Do they really need 50?

Speaker 1 4:45

sheets of OSB. No, that's just the easy button Give me 50 sheets. It's like yeah, but you need seven. No, no, no, give me 50, just in case.

Speaker 2 4:51

Yeah, and then we go pick it up. It's all muddy.

Speaker 1 4:55

That's right. How much credit.

Speaker 2 4:55

Are they getting back when?

Speaker 3 4:57

did it really go.

Speaker 2 4:59

Is it really out there?

Speaker 1 5:00

Oh God, hit on the credit though. Okay, great, you do give it. You do give us the credit. Does anybody on our side follow up, ensure that we got the credit? Did we actually? So we're told? We experienced it when we built our house. They said, yep, got the credit, and I'm like where's my $723? I have yet to see my credit. I had to chase down the credit. What happens if you're not chasing it down? So 10% to 15% it sounds like a lot if you're listening to this, but it's really not when you start thinking about it.

Speaker 3 5:31

Well, I imagine that some folks probably did initially have some sticker shock right Especially purchasing people, because all they look at is the number Exactly, they don't look at time.

Speaker 2 5:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1 5:45

The number at the bottom. Oh, that's what it is okay, but then they're not thinking about the project manager's time, they're not thinking about days lost because of things happening, they're not thinking about the dumpster pulls right because what do we do with that material? Get it in the dumpster, just get it off the job right, get it off the job.

Speaker 3 5:58

We don't. We don't have time. I know watching our house be built just all of the excess material that went into the dumpster, and it wasn't even the what do you call it when you brace the house.

Speaker 1 6:10

It wasn't that kind of thing, oh, the bracing material, the bracing material.

Speaker 3 6:14

It was just stuff that you know dumb stuff, dumb cuts, dumb whatever. And I was like Jesus. This is like I lost all our dollar figures in our dumpster, like dollar signs.

Speaker 1 6:25

Yes.

Speaker 3 6:25

Imagine you control that a lot.

Speaker 2 6:28

Oh yeah, and you know and you never know what other smaller builders are paying for labor from a framer. I don't know what that number is. I know what I pay, so I can tell you from a small builder perspective.

Speaker 1 6:41

But, being a big builder, most of the time we're overpaying. Yes, but I knew that going into it. So when I started buying out jobs, it was very easy to get things in line because I knew what the market was, whereas other I'll give you a prime example. We just brought in a great framer in Charlottesville, one of the best framers in the market $7 a foot to frame the house. Okay, custom home. So, yes, I'm going to spend more because it's 10,000 square foot house. I want this thing to be dead nuts, right. The next job $12 a foot.

Speaker 2 7:10

What You're kidding me Overnight.

Speaker 1 7:13

Overnight goes up to $12 a foot and I'm like in what world does that make any sense?

Speaker 3 7:17

Well, I mean, I imagine like what was your feedback on that? Were you hard to deal with? Was he giving you a pain in the ass? Tax?

Speaker 1 7:26

You know, I don't know Because in my role I'm not at that stage anymore, right? So I've got people in the field that are doing that. But I did ask him those type of questions, but I didn't get any feedback from the questions.

Speaker 3 7:38

Wow, gosh, you know it's $7 a foot and I know in Richmond that's high.

Speaker 1 7:44

It is a high number. Yeah, absolutely. Charlottesville is a different market, though it's smaller. There's a smaller pool. So, being a Richmond person, I'm pulling framers from Richmond. I've got framers that are good that will go to Charlottesville and do the work for me.

Speaker 2 8:00

And we had also talked earlier. You know, for me and my sales guys in 84, to get the work from a builder is much easier than a framer going to get the work from a builder.

Speaker 1 8:12

Absolutely right.

Speaker 2 8:14

And for us to manage the framing crew. You know most of them. I've had relationships with 10, 15, 20 years, depending on you. Know which framer it is.

Speaker 1 8:24

Oh yeah, that's a really good value add for you personally. It is because AJ global speaks highly of of you and what you did at Eagle and I've known AJ for for several years.

Speaker 2 8:34

Oh yeah. So you know most of the framers that I'm working with. I've already worked with them, so I know what they do and they trust me.

Speaker 3 8:41

Well, yeah, and that yeah, that's the other part. They know what you can do, so it's not a one-sided relationship. There's already trust.

Speaker 2 8:49

Yes, that's the important piece. It's a big deal.

Speaker 1 8:52

Oh, it's a very big deal. And then the builders also understand who you are. They understand you were a builder, so you have a better understanding of what we're looking for and how to solve our problems. So now you're kind of the matchmaker.

Speaker 2 9:04

Yeah, that's what it is, Matchmaker.

Speaker 1 9:08

So I think last time you were the fluffer and now you're the matchmaker.

Speaker 2 9:10

I'm the matchmaker now.

Speaker 3 9:12

That's okay, that's okay, just moving up.

Speaker 1 9:15

You put those two roles together, it's a deadly combination.

Speaker 3 9:21

Wow, I think someone else will need to be the fluffer so you can be the full time.

Speaker 1 9:26

So tell us more about the project manager you brought on because this is a new hire. Have they already started?

Speaker 2 9:30

Yes, so he started about two weeks ago, oh wow, and he has over 30 years of construction experience Are you able to say who it is on the air? Joey Yurkovich.

Speaker 1 9:44

Oh yeah, great. Yes, he is an old school guy. He is very good framer.

Speaker 2 9:50

I mean, he knows framing, he knows how to drive crews, yes, so that's good.

Speaker 1 9:51

I think you got a good guy yeah, yeah, he's gonna be great.

Speaker 2 9:54

You know we have a lot of checklists um, and I think he's gonna kill it yeah, I do too I trust. I trust him in the field overseeing the framers Right so he can take the feedback.

Speaker 3 10:06

Yes, he'll be taking the feedback.

Speaker 1 10:09

That's awesome.

Speaker 3 10:11

Just had to put it in there. Get that in there, melody.

Speaker 1 10:14

We all need feedback, right.

Speaker 3 10:15

No.

Speaker 2 10:16

I love it, love it.

Speaker 1 10:21

Well, what's your? What's your vision for the future with the? Well, what's your vision for the future with the turnkey? Because you had just mentioned that you thought you were going to go after the small builders which I think we talked early on. It's like that is definitely where your bread and butter is, but I get the idea that you might be getting some big builders as well, or more regional builders.

Building and Construction Cost Efficiency

Speaker 2 10:40

Yes, I believe next year builders are saying they know it's going to be pretty busy. It is, and some builders have a little bit of difficulty finding trades, finding good trades, ones that they can trust. So I believe that for me the turnkey is going to be huge, not only the framing but the trim you know, they've been doing a trim for years, Um, so we probably do over a thousand a year at least over a thousand homes a year for turnkey trim.

Speaker 1 11:15

Oh yeah, oh wow, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 11:17

Justin, like I wouldn't say just Richmond, but like Virginia area.

Speaker 3 11:21

Wow.

Speaker 2 11:21

Yeah, it's pretty big. It's pretty big. I didn't know that. Yeah, and that's. You know that one's an easy one too. Just you know they don't have to order another stick of you know trim or any of that. We take care of all of it.

Speaker 1 11:34

Cause you've got some. Do you have somebody managing that piece as well? We do Tracy.

Speaker 2 11:48

Tracy handles that, um, and then I have, uh, four or five trim crews great that work for us.

Speaker 1 11:50

Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, I had no idea that you guys were doing that much uh, that much trim yeah, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 11:54

That's become a pretty big thing. Cool, most people that do the framing.

Speaker 1 11:59

They just automatically do the trim as well wow, yeah, I mean I, I like, I mean, the value add is definitely there and if you've got the relationships with the trades, you know the thing that I think happens is that a lot of builders we get stuck and we just want to sit in our office and do our thing. We've lost sight of the networking piece of the business, the relationship side of the business, where we're creating those relationships and to help us make sure we're getting the best pricing to, to make sure we're getting the best product. And I think that we said early on that you are a great business development individual and that's what this is You're. You're just developing these relationships to to keep that business going.

Speaker 2 12:39

It is. You know, I mean it. Just if you're just selling lumber or doors or you know you're just churning it, you're just bidding it every month, god that's brutal. That sounds boring. I don't know, that sounds boring.

Speaker 1 12:51

I mean for me. I just think it's a race to the bottom. If all you're doing is selling lumber, you're racing to the bottom Because, look purchasing individuals, they're just going to whoever's the cheapest price for this month.

Speaker 2 13:09

So you might be up this month and you're down next month. Yes, what a terrible business. Yes, sorry, you know, and that's you know. I introduced this, like I said to the smaller guys at first. You know, no, no, no idea that some of the larger builders wouldn't be so curious. There are some big builders that are very curious, sure.

Speaker 1 13:25

Because we're we're always looking for ways to be more efficient. We've acknowledged on this show that our industry has done a terrible job of recruiting and training the next generation, which means we've got a big gap.

Speaker 2 13:38

We do.

Speaker 1 13:39

So if you acknowledge you have this gap and you can't find superintendents or project managers to know how to run the jobs, to know what to do, you got to find another option.

Speaker 2 13:48

You do, and like you know cabinet companies. I mean they don't just sell you cabinets, they sell you someone to install it.

Speaker 1 13:54

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 13:54

So you know, it could be a thing where it's just second nature.

Speaker 1 13:59

I, you know, I think you're right, and I mean, for a long time it's always been this other way, and I think, because most of us think, well, we're going to save money If I go buy the material, then I go buy the labor, I'll save money. You're right, but you have to manage it, which is another piece of the of the puzzle the something on the plants isn't correct and something's done incorrect.

Speaker 2 14:25

You know, I mean unless it's definitely definitely like an issue on the builder side and we can't fix it. I mean we pay for everything. It's one price, that's what you get. If we didn't do the takeoff correctly, that's on us. So you know, if you ask builders what their biggest spend in VPOs is, it would be in the framing category.

Speaker 1 14:47

Oh yeah, god knows.

Speaker 2 14:49

Yes, or on windows. You know I mean we're installing them. You know we're taking full advantage of. You know we'll, we'll take care of all of it. If it doesn't open, if it doesn't do this or that, it's all us material in labor.

Speaker 1 15:02

Wow, that's good. So if you get one house and say it's a master set of plans, so you've got the same floor plan over and over, you say, okay, we're going to bid this one, we're going to do the job. Are you also saying that when the job is complete we'll do an evaluation of where we are, so there might be a price adjustment, and are builders open to that?

Speaker 2 15:23

Or are you more saying well, I mean most people we've went in and said we'll do this project for this price, meaning each town home is going to be this price. And we're not saying you know, after four I'm going to look at it again. It's saying this is our price. Wow, yeah. No, I'm not saying in you know six months or four months, if you know, lumber goes way up.

Speaker 3 15:42

Well, right, yeah, cause you are primarily a commodity business at your core. So I mean, I would imagine you'd have to have some sort of it's gotta be a safety net.

Speaker 1 15:52

with lumber I mean, usually it's not as bad as it was during COVID, but you know that stuff put people out of business.

Speaker 2 15:57

Well, you know, when I have a neighborhood coming up that I know has like 60 townhomes, we're already ordering the material. So that way we know how much it costs. We're not going to order a little bit now and a little bit later, we're going to stock it. We're going to have it in now for our whole project. Wow.

Speaker 3 16:12

Well, you know, because you were from purchasing. I mean, you know the game right. Like hey, we've got a price increase and it's like oh yeah, I do, I know that game.

Speaker 1 16:21

That's your price increase. Yeah, I know that game.

Speaker 3 16:24

Right. So you definitely can lend a little bit of that. And you know fair is fair, you know if you're given appropriate notice, things like that. Well you know, you work with them.

Speaker 2 16:34

When you go in and you give a price increase, you're opening up yourself for them to bid you out.

Speaker 1 16:40

Absolutely right.

Speaker 2 16:44

That's what most builders do and that's what they should do. I mean, it's just that's how the game goes Right.

Speaker 1 16:47

Right, you have to. As any business, you should be bidding that stuff out. You need to know where the market is.

Speaker 2 16:52

You should bid out every scope.

Speaker 1 16:54

Yes.

Speaker 2 16:55

And I'm not saying every month, but I mean, you know, every quarter, every six months, at least once a year.

Speaker 3 17:01

Yeah, well, for sure, yeah, once a year.

Speaker 1 17:05

I definitely agree. You should be looking at every cost code and looking to ensure that you're getting the best value, because, at the end of the day, the consumer pays for the product, right? Yes, so it's great that you're selling it today and you're making great money. That's awesome. But what happens when the market tightens? Then it's too late. You should have already been adjusting the pricing to be in front of the market Because you never know on.

Speaker 2 17:27

you know different types of material, you can negotiate. You could say you know, I have 70 communities and I'm using this type of gravel or this type of concrete.

Speaker 1 17:35

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 17:36

And just nobody's asked. You know, if I buy this much, can I get this discount? And you just never know.

Speaker 3 17:43

Right, or if you pay early, you pay. I mean everything in your little trick bag.

Speaker 1 17:50

Yeah, you have to be creative though, and most people are just stuck in this one lane fits all, and that's where they get in trouble, and I couldn't agree with you more. It's like go to the manufacturers, negotiate a deal for this community and see what you can do, right.

Speaker 2 18:05

Well, I'm the only one. There's this column. I can't even think of the name of it right now, but anyway, it's this wrap that is wonderful and I mean, I don't know, I guess we saved hundreds of thousands of dollars at Eagle, but we're the only people that use it and then they're like well, it might twist. So we used kiln dried, you know wood in the middle and it's a fabulous product, but it's like you know what products can you use that still perform number one, and also there's some savings in there.

Speaker 1 18:34

Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 3 18:35

You know, we, we all play the game about value engineering. We just love value engineering a product.

Speaker 2 18:41

Yes.

Speaker 3 18:42

But it's worth doing. You know, and especially if you come on to you know a new company, a new job and you're like why do we do it this way? It's because we've always done it this way. And it's like huh, really, do we pay extra for doing it? That way, you know, and you're just kind of, you're just lost at some of the things that we do and that we hear, and you just have to push the boundary a little bit, and it's not always easy, it's not always receptive.

Speaker 1 19:15

Well, that's what I was going to say. Companies have to be open to that. Individuals within the company have to be open to an outside perspective, which is the value of people who don't stay at one company for 25 years.

Speaker 2 19:28

Yes.

Speaker 1 19:28

If you're at one company for 25 years, I think it's great, but you might only have five years of experience.

Speaker 2 19:33

Yep.

Speaker 1 19:34

Because you only know one thing.

Speaker 2 19:36

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 19:37

Like we love in society to say, oh, you're a job hopper, but the experience you're gaining from those other jobs could be off the charts, and you could be gaining three years of experience in a one-year period while everybody else is standing still.

Speaker 2 19:48

Oh, most definitely. You know a lot of people don't look at you know what's the difference in single and double hung. You know? Do you have all those warranty issues because they're double hung and the framers aren't installing them properly? And they're more expensive. And I mean, it's just some people don't know.

Speaker 3 20:03

Well, it's funny, it's all this. You know perceived, you know value and getting something and you know great, you have double hung windows. Does that mean that I've ever even opened the damn things?

Speaker 2 20:13

Like what value?

Speaker 3 20:14

Can you open it? Can you open it? You know all of these things that you have to ask.

Speaker 1 20:23

Well, it's a good point. And then, what does the consumer think? Does? The consumer care for single hundred, double hundred. Do they even know the difference between the two?

Speaker 3 20:30

It's romanticizing something like this perceived value that no one asks. You know how you do things. What goes into a home and it's like really does what value is that to somebody? Have you asked like and you know, and, quite frankly, how would you ask? Right, you know you talk to buyers or you know, did you buy this home because it included xyz features and they're like, well, no, I really didn't even know it was there it's like fantastic, we just spent money on something that nobody cared about the funny thing is I worked for a builder and we were installing this manifold gauge For all of the plumbing.

Speaker 1 21:08

We'd come to one location in the garage or basement, right. So every single fixture had a home run. And they said this is a great value add for customers because they know where to shut every single thing off. It cost us $1,000. And here's the downfall there's only like one plumber in the market that would do it. So you're stuck. You can't really go bid it out because nobody else is doing it. Well, but what you didn't explain to the customers was every single fixture had to wait to get hot water to it, because hot water is not automatically in all of the pipes, right? Most people understand this. So if it takes two minutes to get hot water to your shower, it takes two minutes to get hot water to your shower. It takes two minutes to get hot water to the kitchen sink two minutes to get hot water here.

Speaker 2 21:50

What's the waste of?

Speaker 1 21:50

that water, Wow. And you've got to pay $1,000 more for this system. But you think you're doing something great because nobody else is doing it, but the value is not there.

Speaker 2 21:58

That sounds painful.

Speaker 1 21:59

Oh, it was terrible. And the plumber we were using was atrocious. They were super freaking slow, but I couldn't bid it out. I couldn't do anything. Once I finally got corporate, convinced that maybe we can do something different to save time, we're able to go bid it out and save money instantly and get a better product. Wow, and the consumers thought or actually, I take this back. Sales thought oh, this is a great value add. I said that's great. But how many times have you said it to a customer when you're selling the house? How many customers said if you put a manifold in there, I'll buy this house? None, they don't even know what the hell it is.

Building Industry Insights and Disruption

Speaker 3 22:36

Yeah, I mean. I imagine they would just look at you with their eyes glazed over. You know they're shaking their head like they understand they don't know anything. That's right.

Speaker 1 22:43

And the sales thought was well, they can shut off every fixture.

Speaker 3 22:47

I'm like you can do that now At the fixture.

Speaker 1 22:48

At the damn fixture you can turn off the toilet, you can turn off the sink. There's a valve on every fixture.

Speaker 3 22:54

That is insane.

Speaker 1 22:55

I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 22:56

And if it's like in my garage, I couldn't even get to the damn thing. Right, right, exactly. I don't know how much shit you have in your garage, but this is not selling me this is not at all.

Speaker 1 23:07

But that's where I think builders get stuck and we get antiquated and we just do the same thing over and, over and over again. And that's why I thought, when you first went to 84 lumber, this was great, because you're a disruptor yes and we need a disruption in our industry. We need a transformation and clearly you're doing that.

Speaker 2 23:24

Yeah, and you know, I mean, I don't know how it was run before, really, yeah, I just go in and do it the way that I wanted someone to do it for me when I was on the other side of the table. So you know, I think it has disrupted some things.

Speaker 3 23:40

Yes, yeah, well, your perception of how things are, your experience coming in from that job.

Speaker 3 23:46

I think it is a big deal. And it's not like you go in and go like, oh yeah, this is your problem. No, you know, I think you have this great attitude of discovery on what your problem is, because it may not be labor in the field. You know, what other issue are you trying to solve Again, the 15, 10, 15% for those that are buyers are like oh, I, you know, I can't pay that. Maybe they don't understand what their pinch point is, but think about think about that right.

Speaker 1 24:15

10 to 15% is what? On a million dollars, if you, if you're a smaller builder, you're doing a million dollars, it's it100,000 to $150,000. What's the price of loss, wasted material on your job, what's that number? I know you don't know it, but if you did know it, what would the number be? What about the labor, your internal?

Speaker 2 24:33

labor, it could be 10%.

Speaker 1 24:35

It could be 20% it could. You could be losing money and you don't even know it, but you think this number is too high because it's the only number you see, If you're not doing the forensics on the numbers you won't know. And that's what you owe to yourself, especially any size builder. Ryan Holmes is really damn good at what they do, because they've invested in exactly this. Every single thing is accounted for. We know it's 3,463 nails to frame this house.

Speaker 2 25:06

Yep.

Speaker 1 25:06

I don't know what the number is, but they know it down to that level.

Speaker 2 25:09

Oh, they do.

Speaker 1 25:10

And that's why their pricing is what it is. That's why they can build the biggest box for the cheapest price.

Speaker 2 25:15

And I think too, sometimes, even if the price goes up, some knowing what the price is, period is very important. Oh yes, oh yeah, price goes up. Some knowing what the price is, period is very important. Oh yes, oh yeah, you don't want to go to closing, you know, and prices have gone up so much that you know you thought you were making 11% and you're only making 7% or whatever that number is.

Speaker 3 25:35

That's painful. Well, right, I mean remember when everybody was only building specs because the market was so volatile that they had to at least get through drywall. Yes, to feel comfortable, you know, attaching a sales price to a house.

Speaker 1 25:48

We were not to name names. We were building houses at a flipping loss. We were selling the houses at a loss, yeah, and we didn't even know it until six months later yep. I've been doing this a long time. I said we don't need to practice anymore. Somebody needs to know the damn numbers. Right, right, right Right. Land is scarce. They're not making more land in this area. We need to maximize every single home we build.

Speaker 3 26:13

Yeah, but that.

Speaker 1 26:15

It was super frustrating.

Speaker 3 26:16

I mean, or for builders that build something larger. It's not, as, let's just be honest, it's slow.

Speaker 2 26:22

Yeah.

Speaker 3 26:22

Right, it's slow, right, you have a job, you bid it out. It takes more time, you don't start for two to three months. You're not finished in six to nine. I mean, it could be a year, it could be.

Speaker 1 26:32

Yeah, so those numbers are important. You need to know where your numbers are. You need to know what your expenses are. You need to know where you can make adjustments to improve those numbers. You need to be really dialed in on that stuff and that's hard to do for a lot of builders because they don't take the time to dive into it.

Speaker 2 26:49

No, and you know, if they're only building this certain house and they haven't done a takeoff on it, we do all that. So not only do we give them the turnkey number, but we also tell them what material was needed for the house.

Speaker 1 27:01

That's awesome. Yeah, that's a huge, huge value add. I mean especially for the small builders, but I've worked for some regional builders too. It's a huge value add for them as well.

Speaker 2 27:11

It is.

Speaker 1 27:12

Because they're they're struggling to find. Look, here's the toughest job to fill estimators. Yes, estimators don't exist.

Speaker 2 27:19

No.

Speaker 1 27:19

Right. So it's like someone who can take a set of plans and tell you how much material you need, what material you need they're. They're very rare.

Speaker 2 27:27

Well, and you know, at 84, you know, we have um a company, you know, in corporate, that does all of that for us. So all we do is send it off and there's a group of ladies that does all the takeoffs and they're, they're incredible.

Speaker 1 27:40

Incredible and that that, um is a good thing for you guys and all the builders, because you can have that for 10 different builders, oh yes, whereas as a builder, I need to go find my own department to do that. And if I'm 10 different builders, how do I find all those people to do that?

Speaker 2 27:57

yeah, so if we're doing the framing takeoff and the trim takeoff, there's really not many takeoffs left well, you could be doing drywall too, right? Well, the drywall guys normally do that now oh, drywall guys are doing their own takeoffs.

Speaker 1 28:10

Oh yeah, sure, but you could be. You could be selling drywall, oh gosh, I could, uh-oh no, I don't want to I mean hinkle's not gonna be. Well, hinkle's company might still be in business, but I mean he's gonna retire. Unfortunately, I think's going to retire sooner than later. I hope he hangs in there long enough for us to get our footing.

Speaker 3 28:30

Yeah, or at least for him to be on the podcast.

Speaker 1 28:32

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 3 28:33

Has he been on?

Speaker 1 28:33

yet.

Speaker 2 28:34

No.

Speaker 1 28:35

We haven't asked him, but we need to get him.

Speaker 2 28:38

Oh, you have to have Hinkle on here.

Speaker 1 28:40

Yeah, Hinkle's my buddy.

Speaker 2 28:50

He's, he's pretty great.

Speaker 1 28:51

He's one of the ones that still brings a ham for christmas. Yes, he does, that's right, doesn't? And I told him. I was like I don't care if I'm working 84, I better get my damn ham. The funniest thing was when I was at main street. He's like hey, are you at the office? I said yeah, I'm gonna. He said come out the front door.

Speaker 2 28:56

I said okay he had a ham he's like here's your ham.

Speaker 1 28:59

He's like but don't, don't tell anybody else, because I didn't, I didn't get one for everybody.

Speaker 3 29:03

It's like how am I supposed to hide it? What am I supposed to do with this thing? Because hams are old school.

Speaker 2 29:08

That is so old school. I love it.

Speaker 1 29:11

He's such an awesome guy. I love you.

Speaker 3 29:13

One of the best people in this industry, yeah we have a guy that brings us meat at Boone, at the end of the year. Yeah, Like steaks and stuff. Oh steaks bacon, steaks bacon ground pork.

Speaker 1 29:27

Maybe it is.

Speaker 3 29:28

Yes, oh, but the special bacon only goes to select few. Oh, and I'm not on that list, you're not on the bacon list Nope, Nope. So normally I have to sweeten up Edward, who tries not to eat it because of his you know his health, and I'm like you can just slide that little bacon to me.

Speaker 2 29:48

Well, you know it's funny. Normally at this time of year, you know, my whole office is full of baskets.

Speaker 3 29:53

Oh God, oh yeah, we know Everyone's rummaging through, but guess what?

Speaker 2 29:57

I did? Get one basket. I did Cross Timbers, roofing gave me a basket.

Speaker 3 30:04

Oh, and if Wendy is putting those together, you know that there is some stellar stuff in that. It was very sweet.

Speaker 2 30:11

Aw.

Speaker 1 30:12

That's a good group.

Speaker 2 30:13

Because you know what I would do is I would raffle it off to my team. You know each basket.

Speaker 1 30:18

Yep.

Speaker 2 30:20

And this year I was like I'm not going to get any baskets this year, but I did.

Speaker 3 30:23

So you're like it's all mine mofos, it is.

Speaker 1 30:28

It's all mine, no share. Ctr is another good group.

Speaker 2 30:30

Yeah, they are Very very sweet.

Speaker 1 30:32

We like them a lot, Very very sweet, so I'm excited.

Speaker 3 30:37

Some jobs are underway. Yes, with the framing, so we'll have to get you back on in the new year, apparently. Yes, yes, yeah. So you know, you personally, you're going to be out of work for a little bit. You want to share that a little bit yeah.

Supporting Wellness and Industry Associations

Speaker 2 30:52

So three years ago I had thyroid cancer got through that right directly. Actually, it was actually before my surgery I was diagnosed with breast cancer, so I had those two battles Got through it, finally feeling better. About a year ago I was keeping up with all my scans every three months and it is back again. So the third week of January I will be having a double mastectomy, um, for my breast cancer. Think heavens, it hasn't spread my lymph nodes. Um, so I'm just going to go ahead and get rid of it all, um, and hopefully not be out too long. Heck yeah, cause you'll miss us. I know I will. I can't just lay around all day. I have my son driving me.

Speaker 3 31:43

Yeah, he will, and it's like you know, you know, I know you'll have downtime, but you really won't.

Speaker 2 31:49

I won't, you won't I won't.

Speaker 3 31:51

You can't stay like breast cancer can't keep me down. I gotta, I gotta work, yes, yes. You know, I approach everything with you know, humor and fun.

Speaker 2 32:01

You have to, and when.

Speaker 3 32:02

That's how that's my coping, and often I will say something completely inappropriate, which Josh says. I usually do that when I'm nervous, uh-huh, uh-huh, but I'm just excited, you know, and I'm probably going to have some, you know, titty envy for real. So you know, when you get those puppies rebuilt, I want to be one of the first ones to see them. Happy's rebuilt, I want to be one of the first ones to see them.

Speaker 1 32:28

Can we? I mean, when we get the next podcast going, maybe we can see them? Is this a? This is a group thing.

Speaker 3 32:33

No, this is not a group thing, this is a me and melody thing.

Speaker 1 32:36

You just this is a podcast thing. We're going to show them on the podcast Audio only podcast. Y'all got to see this Our audio only podcast. On our audio podcast, y'all got to see this. Let me describe it.

Speaker 3 32:48

That's when we start the video. Right Maiden voyage of our video.

Speaker 1 32:55

Our podcast will be on OnlyFans. One episode, one episode.

Speaker 2 33:00

I mean, I think it's very brave for you to make that really hard decision.

Speaker 3 33:01

All the love, thank you. I think it is funny. Very brave for you to make that really hard decision. Um. All the love, thank you.

Speaker 1 33:10

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 33:11

You've got a ton of people supporting you in your back corner, so um, I do you know, I really do yeah. For sure, yeah, so, um. So let us know what you need when you're out. I will. We can cross the river and see you.

Speaker 1 33:27

I will yeah, gladly will too. Anything you need from us, we'll be there for you.

Speaker 3 33:31

Yeah, I appreciate that Heck. Yeah, so looking forward to 2025.

Speaker 1 33:35

Yes, yeah, so what's the big thing, your takeaway from that? Because, I mean, we dealt with some cancer this year, not us individually, but you know, in our family we've dealt with it. What, what do you? What do you recommend people do from scanning or assessments or any of that stuff? Preventative, yeah, preventative.

Speaker 2 33:55

So I was not good at mammograms at all and I had missed my mammogram I don't know how many years, and my doctor's like make an appointment on the way out the first time it was caught and they were like we just had a cancellation, we can do it right now. So you know, and that was caught so early.

Speaker 2 34:13

And if it's not caught early and it gets in your lymph nodes and it spreads, once it gets in your lymph nodes, it can go anywhere. Yeah, um, even this time, um, you, even this time, you know, I don't know how it didn't get in my lymph nodes, but it's just getting your breast exams done and then, even after you've had breast cancer and you have the surgery or you know, whatever treatment you have done, you need to go every three months.

Speaker 3 34:39

I mean, I wonder how many people think you know I fought breast cancer, I'm in the clear, I'm in remission, or whatever. You know I no longer have to do those things.

Speaker 2 34:50

Yeah Well, the one thing for me is you know, if I would have had a mastectomy on one side, the other side I would have to have scanned every three months for the rest of my life. And when you do that you're only good for about a month. You do the scan and you feel good and then you dread it and that's a dread that just is every three months and it's like you just can't mentally I wouldn't be able to.

Speaker 3 35:14

To to deal with that. So, I mean you, you, you take the decision. I know it's not lightly, but it's the safest and you know it's controlled. Yes, Right, yes, definitely. Yeah, it's good, but, yeah, the preventative.

Speaker 2 35:29

I have been dodging it for quite some time, because if they catch it early. It's huge. I mean it's huge, the difference it would make.

Speaker 3 35:36

Well, yeah, right, for women it's breast cancer. But there's also, you know, your colonoscopies.

Speaker 2 35:40

Yes, you know that kind of thing, you know that kind of thing Um prostate, yeah, um, you know it's the unsexy stuff, but uh and a lot of people are like I would rather not know, and I get it, I get it, but you know you have a family and you don't want to, you don't want to leave this earth too soon. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 36:02

So I think so too. I think, uh, january I'm going to go get some tests done and scanned, cause I never go to the doctor. There's nothing wrong with me, so what the hell am I going for? Yeah, and now I don't want to say I'm scared, but I'm, I'm more concerned.

Speaker 3 36:15

Watch out, you may end up in a padded room, hon.

Speaker 1 36:26

Oh, that is definitely possible, though this one is a little crazy.

Speaker 3 36:30

Yeah, it's exactly.

Speaker 1 36:32

Well, good, I know that's kind of a sad topic to touch on, but I think it's important. I think it's important that we start talking about more of this stuff because it is. I mean it's real right, it's, it's very, it affects us all.

Speaker 2 36:44

Yeah, and it you know, it's affecting more and more people every year.

Speaker 1 36:47

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 36:48

Right. So I think it's just you know, and some people have the gene mutation and I don't, um, but still you know a lot of people are being tested for that.

Speaker 3 36:57

Yeah, I mean hereditary.

Speaker 2 36:59

Yeah, it wasn't in my family, so you know why would I have went early to be tested right um, but it doesn't matter. You know it could have been in my family, but you know back then were they doing?

Speaker 1 37:13

no, that's exactly right. Well and plus.

Speaker 3 37:16

I mean the food that we eat today, the air that we breathe, I mean you just don't know, you don't, you don't know there's a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of bad stuff out there well, I mean, I think I eat so much food with preservatives that I probably won't need to be embalmed. Possibly, possibly, yeah.

Speaker 1 37:34

Well, there's one more topic I wanted to touch on because you've gotten extremely active and you've always been active with the Home Builder Association of Richmond. But I think you've really gotten active on the trade side, which I'm a huge fan of, even though we're builders but builders are nothing without trades. So can you tell us more about what you're doing with the trade part, trade side of HBAR?

Speaker 2 37:57

So I am the chair for the trade council for home builders, and we formed that about two months ago.

Speaker 1 38:04

So this is a new New very, very new. Wow.

Speaker 2 38:08

So I was chair of the membership committee and then, when I left the builder side, john Miles took over that spot, and then I went on to form the trade council.

Speaker 1 38:22

That's a much better fit for you. I mean, you're probably good at membership too.

Building Industry Networking and Relationships

Speaker 2 38:26

Yeah, it was fun. It was fun, but it was made up of all builders. So Dana approached me about what I wanted to do and she said I think a trade council would be great. So you know, I have six other people on the trade council with me that are trades and we also have constituents. So each one of us has about 50 to 75 constituents that we email every month and ask them. You know we're getting ready to meet for trade council. Do you have any questions, do you?

Speaker 2 38:57

have anything that we want us to say, and then we send them a little synopsis of how the meeting went, what we talked about, and then we also plan quarterly we're hoping quarterly, maybe even more than that a happy hour with builders and trades, like we just had at Cost and Floors.

Speaker 3 39:15

Yeah, that was amazing. It was well attended, yeah there was 150 people there.

Speaker 2 39:20

Yeah, it was great.

Speaker 1 39:21

It was a great, great event. I drove back from Syracuse, new York, that morning.

Speaker 2 39:26

Did you really so?

Speaker 1 39:26

I left it seven something. It took me 10 hours to do, seven and a half hours of driving because all the dang traffic wow and I got home changed and immediately went to costa.

Speaker 3 39:35

I'm not missing it 5, 20, wow I wasn't missing the event, though it was. It was an incredible event yeah, very, very well even though you kind of got in illegally right didn, Didn't you? No?

Speaker 1 39:46

no, brooke hooked me up. Our buddy at Koston got me a pass.

Speaker 2 39:50

Did you have a printed name or did they?

Speaker 1 39:52

write it in Sharpie. She wrote it in Sharpie.

Speaker 2 39:54

There you go.

Speaker 3 39:59

We still love you.

Speaker 1 40:02

One day I'll have a printed name.

Speaker 2 40:05

Well, blake, my boss, he always his, is always in Sharpie, so he got himself one of the you know like the little magnet ones. So so look, look.

Speaker 3 40:13

I brought in my Boone homes official name tag Cause I was like I was rummaging in my drawer and I was like, hey, there's my name tag, I will take, take it. And then I got shamed into taking that one off and putting on the little gold my printed one you know that was the gold embossed.

Speaker 2 40:29

And yes, but you know, I think the name tags were good there that they had there that night because you could read them, because a lot of times you can't read them correct yes, oh yes, so you have your glasses on. You can't see what their name is. You're just staring. I tell though.

Speaker 3 40:44

Name tags need to go somewhere else and on your boob.

Speaker 2 40:48

I'm just telling you.

Speaker 3 40:49

It's like my eyes are up here, buddy. It's like, oh, I'm just looking to see what your name is.

Speaker 1 40:54

It's not very comfortable for men either, because I'm like I'm just trying to get the name and she's like I see, you look. And I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm looking at the name tag. It was like half a second, but we know. But I do have a photographic memory.

Speaker 3 41:10

Well, again you want to. I mean all men. They want to see them all right, hell yes are you kidding? Oh my gosh. Well, I'm excited for that. And you said there was going to be a third group forming of the executive.

Speaker 2 41:26

Yes, roundtable dinner, slash lunch, yep. So there is one group that's 10 and then the next one is 17. And then AR Homes is helping form group number three. So I would think that would be formed in the next few months. Great.

Speaker 3 41:45

And the purpose of these is what.

Speaker 2 41:48

There's two purposes. Number one is for the builders to engage more with each other. We have text chains, email chains. They can ask each other stuff. They go out to lunch alone and talk about business A lot of collaboration. But it also gives a trade. What else would a trade be able to set down and have a meal with 10 different builders or 17 different builders? Um, so I think it's huge.

Speaker 3 42:15

each trade that does those they get work from them gotcha, and and they are the ones foot in the bill they are hosting the launch or hosting the dinner. So again, you do have that individualized yes Like right.

Speaker 1 42:29

That's really good.

Speaker 2 42:31

Because I know.

Speaker 3 42:31

You know HBAR over the. You know the course of the year will do things. You know the. You know what we call the speed dating for builders and things like that. But just imagine that's and that's so quick and you have a five minute window. Yes, to talk to a builder until the next one comes up.

Speaker 1 42:46

I mean it's it's tough, so imagine the value that speed dating a builder is such a great event, though no, it's really fun though it is, I love that stuff my favorite one is when I was sitting there with steve, our purchasing manager, and, uh, classic wanted our business but he was so scared to come talk to me. Tony was so scared to talk to me that he would be. He'd stand over there and he's looking, and he's looking like out of the corner of his eye at me and I'm like he wants to come say something, but he's afraid. And now we have a great relationship, which makes it even more funny thinking back on it.

Speaker 2 43:21

Well, you know this year was the first year I was on that side of the table. Oh, that's great. So I was. You know I was the builder there. But I'm telling you, being on the trade side, I had a blast.

Speaker 1 43:32

Yeah, I bet.

Speaker 2 43:33

I did. I mean, I met builders that I had never really met before.

Speaker 1 43:37

Yeah, You've got a great personality for it though. Yeah, I loved it. You're very outgoing.

Speaker 2 43:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 43:43

Yeah, I bet you could do well at those things.

Speaker 2 43:46

Yeah, I loved it. I loved it.

Speaker 1 43:52

I felt like a lot of the trades just didn't. Let's go back on that. So you're talking about the trade council. I think a lot of the trades struggle to talk to builders because they don't know what to say or how to say it, or what they're even selling, like I do trim. Okay, great, what does that mean to me? Right? So I think when you put together this trade council, I see a massive advantage for the trades and the builders because now you again, you bring your matchmaking skills together and you help them better understand how to package their offering.

Speaker 2 44:16

Well, I knew some of the trades that were coming and I knew some builders that were there that were looking for something, so I would introduce them, and that was very helpful.

Speaker 1 44:27

That really was Having that fluffing to bring those two together. Is that the right use of that word?

Speaker 2 44:33

If you could. I mean yeah. Some people are too shy to speak to each other and don't even know what to say. You know.

Speaker 3 44:42

Well, maybe an icebreaker.

Speaker 1 44:45

That's what they need yeah, versus fluffing.

Speaker 3 44:50

But that's good, because if you are going to treat it like as that matchmaker, you know who's going to come yes you know, and you could maybe even put it out to your network, like, look this, this group of people are here, this is what they need, need and this is their commonality. Hey, for $1,400 or whatever, is this value to you to get in front of these individuals?

Speaker 2 45:18

Yeah, sure, it's huge, it is huge.

Speaker 1 45:20

That's awesome. All this is great stuff. I mean, you're doing incredible stuff over there, not just the 84 Lumber, the selling part and the, the product that you're offering, but the stuff you're doing with the association, which I'm a huge fan of of, uh, us doing more of the association. That's.

Speaker 2 45:35

That's our future it is they're fighting for us. It is, and you know, and it just it gives something for the builders and trades to do together, something that's fun, something that's low pressure. You know, have a few drinks mingle. I mean, it's all about relationships. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 45:52

Yeah, I do too.

Speaker 3 45:54

Too bad. I'm not in estimating or purchasing, I know.

Speaker 1 45:59

You could be, but you won't come work for me.

Speaker 2 46:03

Or with me.

Speaker 3 46:04

Yeah, 2025.

Speaker 1 46:05

2025, hashtag goals yeah, 2025.

Speaker 3 46:07

2025. Hashtag goals.

Speaker 1 46:10

Just completely kidding.

Speaker 3 46:12

All right, well, have an amazing holiday. I will Thank you too.

Speaker 1 46:17

Holidays. I mean there are several holidays happening right now, so have a great holidays.

Speaker 3 46:23

And I'm just going to say it Merry Christmas, it's not.

Speaker 1 46:27

Christmas yet.

Speaker 3 46:28

The debate in the McMahon home. I cannot say Merry Christmas until the day of Christmas.

Speaker 1 46:33

I'm sorry, it's correct.

Speaker 3 46:34

I think saying happy holidays is a cop out.

Speaker 1 46:37

It's not. There's a lot of holidays that people celebrate.

Speaker 3 46:39

Well, I celebrate Christmas. I know that's insensitive.

Speaker 1 46:42

No, you can celebrate Christmas, it's insensitive.

Speaker 3 46:47

No, you can celebrate Christmas, it's one holiday. Okay, enjoy your holiday.

Speaker 1 46:48

I shall I celebrate all of them.

Speaker 2 46:54

Merry Christmas-ish.

Speaker 3 46:57

Y'all make me laugh. Can I say have a Merry Christmas. Absolutely Okay Are you going to say it?

Speaker 1 47:06

Oh, it was implied have a christmas, have a merry christmas and a happy new year you too yeah, thank you again for coming on. Melody, this was uh, this is, this was great. I mean, every time we get you on here is great, and we had no plan on how this was gonna go, and I think it was the best episode we've done with you. So it's, it's uh, it's great to credit to your personality and just our relationship Awesome. We're looking forward to Q1 of 2025. See those puppies.

Speaker 3 47:30

Yep, Heck, yeah. There you go. Podcast puppies. Oh my God. We're looking for a new name, but I don't know if that's going to be it.

Speaker 1 47:39

Ooh podcast puppies.

Speaker 3 47:40

No, no, no, no no.

Speaker 1 47:44

It's got a nice ring to it, though, right.

Speaker 3 47:47

Oh boy.

Speaker 1 47:47

All right Till next week.

Speaker 3 47:49

See ya.

Speaker 2 47:57

Bye yeah.