The Rise of Tech in Building Communities

Have you ever wondered how the construction industry is embracing the tech revolution? Join me, Joshua McMahon, as I sit down with Matt Powers from PNR Consulting to explore this very question. We dig into the emergence of construction technology in 2025, particularly in the vibrant Richmond and Charlottesville markets. Matt shares his journey from being an implementation coach at Co-Construct to becoming a consultant, with a humorous backstory involving a gusty windstorm and Bermonte Homes that's sure to bring a smile. This episode paints a picture of the potential and optimism in construction tech, especially for small custom home builders navigating software options like Co-Construct and BuilderTrend.

Technology integration in construction isn't just a flip of a switch—it's a journey that needs a methodical approach. Together, Matt and I unravel the complexities of embedding new tools into construction businesses, breaking down the process into digestible segments that cater to individual business needs. I emphasize my role as a consultant, bridging the gap between builders and tech developers. We highlight that technology should complement traditional practices and be seen as a tool that increases efficiency and revenue rather than an imposition. The analogy of tech being as essential as a hammer or tape measure is one you'll carry with you after listening.

Matt's story is one of passion and pursuit, illustrating the importance of aligning personal values with professional aspirations. Despite being a perfect fit for a project manager role, I nudged Matt toward consulting, believing it was his true calling. This decision underscores a leadership style that values individual growth. We reflect on community, support, and work-life balance within the construction industry, closing with a shared excitement for future collaborations. This episode is a testament to the power of camaraderie and the possibilities that arise when we prioritize people-first approaches in our professional endeavors.

Chapters

• 0:00 Construction Technology Trends and Software Options
• 10:44 Navigating Tech Integration Challenges in Construction
• 25:21 Implementing Tech as Project Management Tool
• 35:44 Navigating Career Paths and Consultancy
• 42:30 Financial Agreement and Future Plans

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome back to Feed Me your Construction Content. I am Joshua McMahon. Today is January 1st 2025, and Carolyn has taken the day off. Unbelievable Hard to find good help these days, but that's what it is right. But I was able to get Matt Powers, with PNR Consulting, to come on and be a guest on our show, and Matt is a special guest because Matt actually interviewed for a job with me at Bermonte homes and I I told him we're going to go in a different direction and we're going to get into my reasoning before this podcast is over. So, matt, thank you so much for gracing us with your presence today. Josh, pleasure, thank you, and happy new year. Yeah, man, same to you.

Speaker 1: 0:43

This is a I don't know. As a business owner and an entrepreneur I am, I'm more hyped up about 2025 than I have been in many years, and I don't know if it's the. I don't know what it really is, but there's a ton of hope inside of me and I'm just really fired up for what's coming next and what's your thoughts. How do you feel about the coming year?

Speaker 2: 1:05

I think, fired up for what's coming next and what's your thoughts. How do you feel about the the coming year? I think something may be in the water because I was having this conversation with another french especially in the charlotte's album world market. Something must be in the water because I I I'm fired up and and and ready to kind of kick off my consulting company again and seeing what kind of damages that I can do with builders around the country. So, yeah, I think good water around here, josh.

Speaker 1: 1:27

I think you're right. Maybe it is in the water, I don't know. I feel the same and I've talked to a lot of business owners in the Richmond market, Charlottesville market, and the feeling is the same. The feeling is the same in a lot of places which I don't think we've felt this in a long time, and it's a really good thing for all of us. So I wanted to talk about the PNR consulting thing. So you really, I mean where I understand your career started and maybe not like your initial jobs, but your career really got running when you were an implementation coach at Co-Construct.

Speaker 2: 2:03

Yeah, it was. So my buddy and my business partner, ryan, found this job board and said here's this company called Co-Construct. And I was like what, what in the heck is this? This was 2016. So what in the heck is this? And randomly applied for it, went in, took the interview, fell in love before I even walked out the door from the interview and really had to look back since. So I got to fill in as I was employee 38. When I left, they grew to over 120. I got to do sales, engineering, implementation, support, everything under the sun. And, yeah, it really kicked some, lit some fire under me to use my skills or maybe as a millennial in my blood and the tech side to help builders and remodelers and whatever facet I could with their tech solutions that's so cool and and we use bermonte homes, use co-construct and I think, um, uh, before my time at bermonte, bermonte had built don the, the previous owner of co-construct.

Speaker 1: 3:06

They built his house and uh, uh the. The funny story was that at conferences Donnie would talk about him creating the software from his experience with building and that sort of thing. Well, anyways, vermont, they built his house and there was a massive, freak windstorm that came and blew the house down during the framing stage. Nobody was hurt, no real damage, but just kind of look, that's why we have insurance. That's just part of the business. But it was just a really funny story for the owner of Bramante to be at a Co-Construct conference, donnie telling this story of his house blowing down and the owner of Bramruct saying, yeah, we were that builder.

Speaker 2: 3:49

Oh, that's true. Donnie left some of those details out when he told all the new hires that he had a local builder building his house when Co-Construct came to origination. But yeah, that's wonderful and I've seen his house and it's beautiful and speaks volumes to to Vermont. They've worked then and now.

Speaker 1: 4:10

Yeah, well, his house is only three doors down from the owner of of Vermont three doors, I don't know. I've been to the owner of Vermont his house and I've. I could throw a stone and hit Donnie's house. So yeah, it's a great neighborhood and, quite frankly, we were big fans of CoConstruct for the years that CoConstruct was being supported and growing the way it was. Yeah, coconstruct was eventually sold to another software agency and that's when we exited Stage. Left Understood.

Speaker 2: 4:46

Understood.

Speaker 1: 4:46

Happy to elaborate on that a little if you want, but understood other software agency and that's when we exited stage left, understood, understood Happy to elaborate on that a little if you want, but understood. Well, I think the big thing for us was and maybe not us, but the big thing for me BuilderTrend is who bought CoConstruct? Buildertrend is a big software company now. They kind of rule the market in some sense, and the way that I felt we're a custom home builder doing four to six homes a year Builder trend salespeople that were trying to convince us to switch over were basically saying take it or leave it, we don't really care. I felt zero customer service. I felt zero passion in the salesperson and it was almost like we want your money and if we can't get it we don't care, because there's four more builders lined up that will get their money. And I'm not the type of person that I don't appreciate that relationship. It didn't feel good to me and the price point was aggressive for a smaller builder. When you start thinking about what do we absolutely need with our software system? It just didn't make sense to me and I'll just go further on that.

Speaker 1: 5:56

I'm a big fan of ECI. One of the first systems I ever used was owned by ECI. It was Mark Systems or IHMS. In the field it was ITK or Internet Toolkit. I think hands down it was the best system for the field. And when I got into the office and learned the office side, I thought it was a really easy system to navigate. I could create queries in the background to pull my own reports and I just I felt really comfortable with that system. And let me tell you the customer support from ECI off the charts If you needed anything.

Speaker 1: 6:32

They were there to help you and I've got a great relationship with a lot of them there. So when I started searching for another option outside of CoConstruct, I instantly went to ECI and ECI had a small company that they acquired called BuildTools. That was created by a custom home builder for custom home builders and I said I think we need to look into this and ultimately that's what we ended up doing. We went to BuildTools. The salesperson for BuildTools is why you and I met.

Speaker 2: 7:03

I can't remember his name.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Scott Gillespie. Scott gillespie, yes, he was a. He's a very knowledgeable individual, also came from co-construct he did yep yep but I felt I felt really good with with eci, with build tools and what they were doing. Do you have experience with?

Speaker 2: 7:24

ECI, I do, and I just want to elaborate on or piggyback off one thing you said. That's kind of the beautiful nature about the construction technology market. Now you identified a product or a solution, that builder trend. You know, I drank the Kool-Aid for many years too and while they're a great product, it's, there's so many other vast options and every unique individual builder or remodeler really in the world needs to be kind of treated as that unique, not not. Here's an out-of-the-box solution. You got to pay for it, run with it, you're good it's. That's actually how I discovered uci too.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Josh, was I kind of backed off of the Coke and Shuck consulting. I was an official partner for them for years and then when the acquisition happened, it was like there's so many other tech stacks out there. And then I actually contacted Scott and was like Scott, tell me a little bit about ECI and what's going on there. And he gave me the full tour and I am fully drinking their Kool-Aid now is a great software. It is so user-friendly and just makes in the integration between quickbooks is actually a two-way sync, which is a beautiful thing, because a lot of these tech stacks um, if you don't understand the nerdy part like I do. It kind of is difficult for that two-way sync. But yeah, I mean can't speak more highly of ECI. Buildertrend's great too. There's also a lot of other good softwares, but ECI is slowly but surely coming up, well fastly coming up on the top 5% in that tech world for remodelers and ground-up construction builders.

Speaker 1: 8:59

Well, I do think that's a good point. The reality is there's tech for everybody. What tech isn't good for me could be really good for you, and I'm not going to be the one to tell you don't do this one or don't do this one, because your business is completely different and how you operate is different. And if you find you're getting the value from it, then great.

Speaker 2: 9:20

And if you're not.

Speaker 1: 9:21

There's other options out there, and that's all that I was saying. As far as I'm concerned and I think that was the big thing for me in my business is I have to take my time to really understand you as a customer, what you're looking for, what your pain points are, what your non-negotiables are, so that I know how to sell you or guide you to the home that you want to build, or guide you to the home that you want to build. Well, I think that's what we need to do in sales and from a consulting standpoint. Your job, in my opinion, is to solve my problem, and if you're not solving my problem, you're not doing your job.

Speaker 2: 9:55

Yeah, no, in many ways and I think that's kind of what helped me transverse over to the production PM side was every home that we build for a client or every conversation that we have with a builder. We're people first and we have pain points and we have non-negotiables and we have all these things that we desire. But let's simplify that, not ignore it. Simplify the list, tackle the first three biggest pain points first, or the first three non-negotiables, and build either a custom home like y'all do, like you have, or a custom solution for that client or for that builder. So definitely resonates with me a lot in what you said and is that something?

Speaker 1: 10:42

how do you? You handle your consulting side? Because I and how I want to kind of tee you up is, when we went into build tools, I want to say that I was a little bit naive, thinking this will be nothing, we'll have this onboarded in three months. I had a dedicated person that was going to do their normal job and do all the integration. So I was like I got the boxes checked. Eci has got a weekly meeting where this person will attend take notes, be doing the homework every week.

Speaker 1: 11:12

Well, at the end of six months, the person that we tasked with doing this sends out essentially a list of videos for everybody to go watch to learn what they're supposed to do with their respective part. In other words, we were at square one after six months of investing and I was ready to scrap the whole system. So what I'm getting at is, while I thought it would be easy to integrate and maybe it is, if that's all you're doing, but if that's not your only job, how in the hell can I expect someone to do their 40-hour job and integrate something they have no knowledge of.

Speaker 2: 11:49

So I feel your pain. When I was working at Co-Construct, what kind of sparked PNR was? I wanted to fully integrate these softwares, not just here's 16 videos Good luck on the scheduling portion, or good luck on your three biggest pain points portion. And I just want to make it obviously clear you need about a year to fully integrate a system. That is in my experience. It's. Once you hit that year and you find these daily habits of checking the Gantt charts, checking the to-do list, checking the messaging with clients, you got to give it a full year but you got to put time and energy into that. You can't just like kind of like you said, you know, expect it to just kind of happen. You do have to have that.

Speaker 2: 12:37

So I take a very different approach to consulting. I take a more holistic approach. So I don't only want to talk to, let's say it's a team of 10 people four office people, six field staff Before I even give a proposal for my services. I want to talk to a variety of different key players because I want to fully understand the business before I say here's an out-of-the-box solution. We're going to build you a scheduling template or estimating template and good luck.

Speaker 2: 13:10

I like to take a true partnership with all the builders that I work with and I think that's what a lot of these. And I'm completely independent. I don't have a signed contract with any tech software and I probably never going to say never, but I I refuse to because, like you said, different solutions for different folks. I don't want to be tied to one. So to kind of answer or to elaborate on that, it's one of these that I really need to understand the full business before I can say, out of your six pain points, we're going to solve these three in the first 60, 90, 120 days. And I actually build out a tentative schedule along with that and say, guys, realistically, I know it's the first of the year and you want to look at systems and it's great. We got an international builder show coming up, great, love it. Let's really understand fully the complexity of what you're looking for and then talk about the realistic goals of you're not going to implement this in a month or a week. It's really going to be a fully invested process.

Speaker 1: 14:21

Yeah, a hundred percent from experience it takes, I would agree. A year probably makes the most sense. And here's what I love about what you said. You break it down. You take your two or three pain points. You say this over this amount of time. I think, looking back, had we broken our integration down into segments and said, hey, over the next two months we're going to lock in job logs. This is going to be second nature for everything we do, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 14:49

Absolutely. And even to caveat off that, say that there's other features that you wanted to integrate. Right now, if people are struggling with job logs, doing them weekly or biweekly or whatever, assign to-dos to them. That way they get the notification. Ah shit, I got to do this job log real quick. Mark it off the to-do and then go do the job log. And it's just those daily habits that I like to work with builders on to know that it's not. These softwares like UCI can be a major asset, but it's also a double-edged sword. We want it to be the positive asset, not take it and run with it and good luck, and then builders are like back to square one.

Speaker 1: 15:37

Well, that's exactly right, and that's where I think that your approach the integration piece is really what's missing. I think that your approach the integration piece is really what's missing. I think the tech side does a really good job of creating this tech stack that's going to help us improve our business. The builders understand how to build homes. The problem is you don't have any anybody in the middle to kind of bridge that gap, because we don't know what the hell you're talking about in tech and you have no idea what we're talking about. You need that in-between person to kind of go between the engineers and the customers. You really do. Having that integration person that's outside the company, that can give you a better look at where you're struggling, what you need to focus on, how to break this down that is a massive value add to any business.

Speaker 2: 16:28

It's definitely. I never thought that I would. I kind of started a P&R with my business partner, ryan, as a side opportunity, side hustle, and never thought that I would have the opportunities to work and be in so many different builders businesses across the country and really help integrate these systems. I think one thing that I did want to just highlight something you said it's how, in the world, as a builder, I have about four years of construction field experience, so I can kind of speak to it a little bit not as well as many, but it's it's you really have to identify not only the key points or the key elements you're trying to solve, but if you have an internal what I will call like a tech guru or a, a person that you're assigning that role to, to help integrate it. You really have to.

Speaker 2: 17:26

As somebody who I did this with one of my I was working for as a vice president of ops for a short period, for about a year, for a company in San Diego. I assigned one person to do all this crazy tech stuff because I was also running a team of 20 and I failed to fully acknowledge that I didn't evaluate their current workload and then just toss this on them too and ultimately I failed them. So definitely evaluating if you have that internal champion of who, what are they? Okay, can we take them off. If it's a selections coordinator, can we take them off. Every new project, give them 50% so that they can work with either ECI or BuilderTrend or whomever to integrate into our business.

Speaker 1: 18:16

Yeah, I mean, the time factor is something that I think most of us just don't factor into it. We just assume that we'll add this little bit of stuff to them. They'll be fine because you got time anyways during the day, but the reality is, whatever time they had, they're filling with something else. You have to help them understand what you're offloading to onboard something new. Absolutely, and that's something that I have learned. I've really struggled with trying to accept that, that I'm not Superman and I can't do everything I want to do all the time. Absolutely, there's a finite amount of time in every day. So, as I say, hey, in 2025, I'm going to take on these three new things, well, I also need to be thinking about how much time is I going to take and what am I killing off of my schedule to make room for these new ideas?

Speaker 2: 19:05

Yeah, yeah, and tech stacks in the construction industry are very common. An analogy that I use a lot is say you're doing framing 2x4 and 2x6 takeoff for a 5,000 square foot custom home, to take off for a 5,000 square foot custom home, and we always make the joke that you know there's 20% waste instead of 10% waste, like many other things. Multiply that 20 to 40% and that's the allocation of hours that you should be thinking for integrating a tech stack. So if you think it's going to take somebody 200 hours, up that to 350, and that's realistically where that's going to be.

Speaker 1: 19:44

Wow, that's really eye-opening. So you say that 350 hours to onboard this type of tech. It doesn't make sense to me to try and do it in-house then, because I don't know what your pricing is, because I know before we went live you talked about pricing is custom built for the builder or remodeler, for whatever opportunity they're trying to solve. You try and understand what that is before you give a price. So it's hard to say how much the price is for any type of project. But it is easy to say 350 hours times whatever you think your time is worth. That's what that consultant is worth to you to get that system onboarded at the highest level.

Speaker 2: 20:29

Yeah, and let me backtrack for one sec. The 350-hour allocation is typically. I've done a study with some of my builders to say, in a year's time, if you had an internal champion working 40 hours a week, um, how much of their time cost codes can't speak, cost codes, gotta have cost codes, super important um, how much of the of their time entries has been allocated to like either continuing education or creating a cost code for implementing of new software? And I found that 300 to 350 hours for one person the entire year being allocated as the champion to get the system in-house up and running 70 to 80% accurately.

Speaker 1: 21:14

Wow. But, matt, I think there's value to this exercise you're saying so if we start to quantify what is going to take us to onboard this system. And here's the problem If you've never done it, you have no idea how long it will take you, how much effort it will take you, how much it will cost your people. But let's just say, for simplicity, we're going to say 350 hours to implement this system. Simplicity, we're going to say 350 hours to implement this system. And I'm going to say the time for whoever's doing it. Their value to your company is worth a hundred dollars. Maybe that's on the high side, maybe that's on the low side, depending on the person and what they bring. That's $35,000. If we can bring in someone outside to integrate the system into our home building business for anything less than $35,000, then we have saved money because we're getting it onboarded that much quicker.

Speaker 1: 22:07

Because here's the part you've got to hear me on there's always a tax. The tax is the unknown number. The number you know is the price that the consultant is charging you. But if you do it yourself and say I'm going to save, just say, $20,000. The consultant's going to charge me 20 grand. I'm going to save 20 grand. Okay, great, you save the 20 grand, but what's the tax on your people? What's the tax on the person doing the work? What's the price? What's the tax on the people in the field that are actually having to use it every day? How, actually having to use it every day? How do you quantify the tax on your people? And then how do you replace them when they burn out and leave?

Speaker 2: 22:45

That is, if you ever come up with the answer to that, you'll. You'll be a billionaire in many ways, because it's go ahead.

Speaker 1: 22:56

I think it's just recognizing that it's there and then having enough respect for your people to say, hey, I'm bringing on this consultant for this reason, this is what we're going to get from it, and then explain that to your people. This is why we're doing it. I'd like you to be fully invested. I want you fully bought in. Let's help this individual be successful, let's get this system on board and let's go.

Speaker 2: 23:19

Let's rock and roll with it. I think a lot of. So you asked the question about my personal pricing. I don't have an out of the box pricing. Every builder is unique. I've done everything from just setting up cost codes and integration with QuickBooks, from these tech stacks to QuickBooks to full out integrations across, rolling out across a team of 40. So every every pricing is unique. I need to fully understand their construction company before and their pain points before before I can accurately give a give, a quote.

Speaker 2: 23:52

But something that that you said that was really hit the nail on the head is I like to have, whether it's Zoom I've done on sites I like to bring everybody in and say listen, team, I'm not here to completely change your life or to make your life difficult. I'm going to be meeting with the marketing team and the operations team and the production team individually Slow burn, slow burn. This thing, let's tackle it together. And I'm going to be in the background, wizard of Oz of the tech stack in the background. It's a full team approach and I'm not just here for the CEO and founder or the VPs. I'll go meet you on the job site if I have to.

Speaker 1: 24:37

That's good and I think that's necessary. And it really leads me to my next question. Matt, we've been building houses for decades, for centuries, without tech. Yeah, I'm sorry. Okay, I'm a I'm a big systems guy, I'm a big fan of the tech, but here's where I'm not a fan. Tech thinks they're going to solve our problem, but do you know what problem we have? Our problem is what? It's scheduling, it's budget control. The biggest problem that we have is customer service. I think every single builder struggles with customer service. People will portray that everything's fine, but it's not.

Speaker 1: 25:14

I've been in several different builders, and customer service is always a struggle for us. So here's what I think is happening. This is where I want to go with this. I think we're so focused on managing the system, the tech system, that we've lost focus of managing the project and delivering exceptional experience to our customers. So from this old salty dog, who I'm not pushing against tech, I'm just playing devil's advocate, because I know you deal with it yep, how do you?

Speaker 1: 25:43

so? You're the. You're the person in between. Right, you got tech, you got you, and then you got the building. You're the person between. How are you helping that old salty dogs that are out in the field building? How are you helping them understand the value of the tech and how it makes their life easier?

Speaker 2: 26:00

oh, great, great question, great question. And it's such a unique approach because I think, as a millennial and as a certified tech nerd it's in systems guy it's very hard in any circumstance, right To say, here's this tech stack, here's this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you need to use it, you need to use it, you need to use it. It's going to replace all this. I approach tech as not replacing anything. It's an advantage in helping and assisting. So instead of like, let's just say, communication with clients, right? Well, shoot, I forgot to BCC the I'm sorry, cc the designer. Oh man, I did not send this out to everybody.

Speaker 2: 26:44

Just a simple messaging feature in these softwares, right, where multitude of different users can get the notification. And you don't have to sort through all your emails and find this one and find it here. You have your document management right there and you have your messaging component, whether with the team or with the clients, and you can say we're not replacing email, this is just an additional tool. And if you do it this way, you don't have to CC and send it to 100 different people. They're going to get the notification. So I definitely don't want to replace anything, don't want to, don't want to you know, say that these crazy homes have been built for you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 years without tech. Have you thought about it like this? Here's a, a, a advantage in here is a tool. It's not the end all be all. Here is a tool to better assist you.

Speaker 1: 27:42

That you you got the right approach. I think this is nothing but a tool. It's just like a tape measure, it's like a level, it's like a square any tool you've used to build homes in the past. That's what this is going to be used for, and I think it so heavily comes down to your attitude and how you approach this, and not just you specifically, I mean you as the entire industry, because I think all too often I've seen, and I've been a part of, use the system or else, yeah Well, then you run off these builders that are really damn good at building houses, really good at deriving customer service, and customers love them, but they don't use the system. So we run those people off and it's back to that tax again. I'm putting a tax on my people that are providing a high level of service, when what I need to do is help, coach and guide them to the system.

Speaker 2: 28:36

Yeah, and same thing with vendors and subs too. Right, like I preach heavily, it is a system to help, not replace. You can't expect, you know, I'll just use a few vendors around here. I can't expect to receive a framing bid from 84 Lumber and Cardinal back to the system, because they're also servicing 100 other builders in this market. However, I can use it as a tool to put all the bids and quotes in one place, to then pull it all up here, so I don't have to go to 16 different emails or 16 different folders on my desktop. It really, really, really and you said it well is so similar to a hammer. It's not meant to replace. It's not a use this system or else type approach. It needs to be a tool in the toolbox that you know. Luckily, you can access from an iPhone or an iPad or you know anything like that. Yeah, or Android, but I'm an iPhone user too. So, yes, these tech stacks work on every single device as long as it has wifi or five.

Speaker 1: 29:47

Well, that that that's the advantage that we have today. I mean, this $800 phone sitting in your pocket is, you know, mine's 800. Other people have 1,200. Some people have six. You know they're grossly overpriced for the amount of money it costs to make them. But we've got all of this ability at our fingertips and I love what you said. It's like having an assistant, because I was listening to an audio book on my run this morning and the individual talked about when he first got to making $100,000 a year as an employee. He went and hired an assistant on his own. He said I'm making $100,000. I need an assistant to do these other things. That's what this system is supposed to do for you. So if you treat it that way like I can do all of this and make $100,000 a year, but I can do all of this with this system, with this assistant, and I can make 150, I can make 250.

Speaker 2: 30:40

Yeah, and you know approaching it like that too. When you hit that assistant, I'm sorry, when you hit that a hundred thousand dollar revenue, for your example, you may only need an assistant for five hours a week. When you go to one 50, you may need them for 10 or her, or them for 10. It's not a one size fits all solution and the tech stack can be as simple as Google Drive and organized Google Drive or an organized Microsoft 365. It doesn't have to be these co-construct builder trend contractor form and while they're great, it's very unique to the builder. So and it should be a slow burn process.

Speaker 1: 31:19

I completely agree. Don't try and don't. Don't try and do everything overnight, just, I like the tech stack verbiage because I think you just stack the tech on top of each other. So start with one thing Document control, I think, is critical for all of us, builders and remodelers. Start with document control and if you don't have the money to invest in a system, well, invest in Google Drive, invest in Microsoft. Those are the two basic techs that we wish to start with and then have a system inside there for all of your docs, your projects, and then everything that goes with that individual projects in its own, individual folder. It's just a clean and organized way. So when it comes time for taxes, it comes time for closeout, whatever you're doing, it is very, very easy to navigate that. And then, as you graduate, you move into the next tech stacks. You just stack it on top.

Speaker 2: 32:13

Stack it on top. And one thing that I did want to add real quick, Josh, is when I approach tech stacks and different technology solutions for builders, I tell everybody leave your phone, leave your iPad, leave everything out of this office. We're going to get a whiteboard and identify the process because you build and integrate the tech stack with some evaluation and manipulation along the way around the process. You don't have a good document management file. Don't just go sign up for Google Drive. Let's figure out your folders, let's figure out how we're going to set it up and then go identify the tech stack. So, leave everything out of the office, get the old whiteboard out, chalkboard I still use legal paths myself sometimes Write down the process, then start racing for a solution.

Speaker 1: 33:05

Man, I'll tell you, Matt, you hit the nail on the head with that. When we use Google Drive and our Google drive was so messy you couldn't find a damn thing you were looking for. I mean, it's like go look for the okay. So you get an invoice on something, go look for the bid, verify the bid. How does it match up to the invoice? Where did we lose money? Well, where's the bid?

Speaker 1: 33:28

At what folder was it saved in? Where was it? In this, was it? It was like what the heck? So you so you know just creating we had job folders, but everything went in the job folder. So then it was like job folders, bid folder inside the job folder. Inside the bid folder was framing, then plumbing, then electrical. Every single trade was broken down so all the bids could go in there. It's super easy to find whatever you need to find, and so I think it's. It was super painful. That's why I wanted to share that. But but I like this idea get rid of all the tech, get a big whiteboard I'm a big fan of a big whiteboard and just write out the process. What does it look like? Push and pull the ideas and get it to where you're like. The whole team says Push and pull the ideas and get it to where you're like.

Speaker 2: 34:16

The whole team says hell yeah, that's our play, that's what we do, yep. And then contact somebody like me and say, matt, here's this whiteboard picture.

Speaker 1: 34:24

Help us solve it with the tech stack. Well, and you know, Matt, they could call you in to do that portion. Yeah, Like, hey, Matt, these are the things we're struggling with. We'd like you to come in and you say, okay, these are the things we're struggling with. We'd like you to come in and you say, okay, these are your three struggles. I'd like to have everybody in this office for two hours no tech, no phones, nothing. And we're just going to write it out what does it look like? What pisses you off on a daily basis and what do we need to?

Speaker 2: 34:46

fix, and that's probably my favorite part about my job. It's leaving all the tech solutions out and getting down because we're all human first kind of like we mentioned earlier. Let's figure out the pain points, let's figure out the process and with the asterisk there, the process is always going to evolve, always does has to, but, but it's. Let's figure out what, why people wake up in the morning and what pisses them off during the day, and let's help solve the problem for pissing off so that they can be happier in the morning right the next day.

Speaker 1: 35:23

You know you're speaking my language, matt. That's exactly right. If you can figure out what pisses people off, you can solve a lot of their problems and make them extremely happy to come to work every day. For sure, josh, and I think it's super awesome, matt, this has been awesome. I'm grateful you came on and you know what, before we close this out, I wanted to share. Matt did interview for a job with me. He is qualified to have the job and here was the issue for me and you can take it however you like. I really liked Matt and I saw a ton of value in Matt. But here was the problem. If I hired Matt, I was afraid I was going to ruin his true path in life, which I think is consulting. I think he has a deep appreciation for people and businesses and I think he's going to do more good helping other businesses than he would being a project manager for Vermont A Homes, and for that reason I said I don't think you're the right fit for us and this is what I think you should do.

Speaker 2: 36:23

Josh, that's super awesome of you, man. I did not know that, honestly, till now. So I appreciate that and, yeah, it really is a passion and I love the field building, but I think I got to stick with my gut and you're kind of helping me do it, man.

Speaker 1: 36:42

Well, I've always been true to myself that I might have an immediate need and I need a project manager. So I can easily say, okay, I'm going to go grab this guy, I'm going to put him in plug and play, he's going to go build some houses, yeah. But if you're not really passionate about it, then I know that I'm going to lose that individual. But selfishly, I don't care, because I'm going to take them, I'm going to grab them, I'm going to get them in that role and I'm going to fill my void and get me another year down the road. But I think that's where we're not blaming ourselves for not truly understanding what's this person's why, what's driving this individual.

Speaker 1: 37:20

And I want to make sure I'm hiring people and putting you in a position where you can really grow. I've had candidates where I said you are way too gifted and I think you were part of this too. Your ceiling is way too high for our small builder. I'm just going to be holding you back and I'm going to have to push you to look at bigger opportunities in a year or two. That's why I wanted you to do what you're doing now. I think this is the right path for you.

Speaker 2: 37:46

I actually remember you saying something along the lines of that was the most delicious interview I've ever had at a barbecue joint in town and it was. I remember you saying that, Josh, and really speaks volumes to you and kind of your leadership style, and held a podcast too. Just like you're people first, you want people to succeed and not feel bottlenecked, whether it's in a job or whether it's a situation. You really push people and push me to start this consulting company again full-time.

Speaker 1: 38:16

so I I do thank you for that well, good, I'm happy to help and I think the listeners are always happy to help. How do we, uh, how do we find you? What, um, where, where do we reach out and get, get to something started?

Speaker 2: 38:30

yeah, so I got a. I got a cool name on my website. No, it's so. My website is prconsultingnowcom May change this year, but for now, prconsultingnowcom, and it's just Matt at prconsultingnowcom and you can see me. You can see my awesome dogs on there and my business partner, ryan, and feel free to reach out anytime for you or any of the listeners. And one thing I do like to advertise strongly is even if you come to me and you don't pay me but you have a problem, I'm going to fight like hell to help you solve that and be a resource for not just an individual but for the team, to really figure out why you're pissed off today, to help you not be pissed off tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Yeah Well, I mean, you're people first as well and you want to help people solve problems, and I think there are not a lot of good consultants in the industry. So having somebody that's driven, wants to solve problems, wants to help people move forward, and I don't think your skill set is limited to builders or remodelers. I think this goes beyond that, because I think your skill set is people.

Speaker 2: 39:42

Yeah, I appreciate that man Appreciate that very much.

Speaker 1: 39:46

Well, thank you for joining on January 1st. I hope 2025 is going to be a massive year. Man, I'm rooting for you. I'm looking forward to doing lunch here in the near future in Charlottesville and keeping in touch with your journey.

Speaker 2: 40:00

Josh, can't thank you enough. Thank you for having me and Happy New Year.

Speaker 1: 40:04

Awesome man. Talk to you soon, Matt, Until next week. Yes, sir, See you All. Right man Later, Matt, Later dude.

Speaker 2: 40:18

That later, dude, that was good. Yeah, bro, that was fun. Yeah, I was good it was. You make me feel like such a conversation, which which I, I know that when you uh, I've listened to several of the podcasts now, it's just so easy, man, you make it so, so fun, so much fun well, I wanna, I wanna prop people up, I wanna.

Speaker 1: 40:30

Yeah. I mean, this industry is such a great place and I think so many people are beat down and they're just tired and I'm like it's not how this industry really is. Man, there's so much more good happening. We just don't align, the values don't align, and I'm like I'm not interested, like this costs me money every month and and I'm okay with that, but I'm not going to promote somebody that I don't believe in.

Speaker 2: 41:02

Yeah, yeah, that are POSs. Yeah, yes, yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, I was out at one of my job sites yesterday doing some rough-in for plumbing. The plumber looked at me and said man, I don't know if I can come tomorrow. You know, I'm like please take the day off. You know nothing. Here is critical path enjoy time with your family. It's new year's. This thing is not important like family first. So yeah, I, I align with that in many ways here.

Speaker 1: 41:30

Yeah that's good man. Well, let's um, yeah, let's keep in touch. I mean I'd love to, I'd love to work with you more on the pricing stuff and, for sure, more comfortable with that, because I think you're leaving a lot of money on the table, man, like I think I appreciate that. I think there's a lot of opportunity to really get out there and make some stuff yeah, no, and I'm looking forward to definitely let's get lunch soon.

Speaker 2: 41:54

My full-time job at snyder is ending. I get married the end of may, so either april 1st or may 1st, um, so I'm gonna be doing I'm kind of testing the waters and seeing if I can line up some contracts, or just seeing if, good, you know um, for for, uh, this side of consulting. But, yeah, definitely, man, you're a hell of a guy and I can't thank you enough. And and likewise, if you know for for this side of consulting. But, yeah, definitely, man, you're a hell of a guy and I can't thank you enough. And and likewise, if there's anything, please, please, please, please, please, if I can help you with ECI or QuickBooks or any of that, ping me anytime.

Speaker 2: 42:28

Yeah, and if I don't know the answer, I'll find it quickly. No, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 42:31

That's, that's money, man. I'll find it quickly. No, I appreciate that. That's that's money, man. I'll take you up on that here in the future. Please do, man, we'll have to need it to you, man. Awesome brother, you too, man, I'll talk to you soon. Yes, sir, thanks, josh, bye, bye, yep, see ya.